The Ten Lies about the GLBT Community Told by Conservative Hate Groups | A Straight Christian Perspective

UPDATE: Following the shooting of a building manager at Family Research Council headquarters in Washington, DC, August 2012, FRC is claiming the shooter was given license to commit violence because the Southern Poverty Law Center had deemed them a “Hate Group” and demanded that the labeling be lifted. I say nice spin and HOGWASH! FRC SHOULD be on the list. Read why they have earned that listing.

As a follower of Jesus who takes very seriously the commands to love, be merciful and “spend” myself on justice, I’ve struggled for a week with this post about the designation of  the Family Research Council (FRC) as a Hate Group. I am a swirl of anger and shame and relief. I have waited over a week to write and post this so that I could  check myself and make sure it’s the Jesus-kind of anger motivating me. By speaking out, I will be going directly against what appears to be good, sound and sacred. So be it. Deceit and hatred wrapped in a lovely robe and carrying a Holy Text is a horrible, blasphemous offense.

In December 2010, the Family Research Council (FRC) was placed on Southern Poverty Law Center’s (SPLC) list of Hate Groups. In amongst 932 designated active hate groups in the United States which include:  neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klan, White Supremacists, White Nationalists, Black Separatists, Racist Skinheads, Holocaust Deniers, Neo-Confederates, Anti-Immigrationists and Anti-Gay groups, there is listed the Family Research Council.

Eighteen of  SPLC’s Hate Groups are anti-gay.  For absolute clarity, deeming homosexuality as “unbiblical” will not earn an organization a spot on the Hate Groups list. But, continuous dissemination of known falsehoods and the repeated, groundless demonizing of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT) people will score a group an uncoveted position on the list.

Tony Perkins, President of FRC

I listened to Tony Perkins, President of FRC, on Fox and Friends as he responded to the dishonor announced last week on being place on the SPLC’s Hate Groups list.  I talked to my computer screen and boiled at his smiling, what-me? attitude. No, Mr. Perkins, FRC is not on the list because you are a conservative group. Your actions have placed you there. No, Mr. Perkins, the left is not trying to shut down the debate or take away your freedom of religion.  GLBT people are fighting for what the mascot-version-God aside you says they deserve—equality.  Religious straight conservatives (and I am one) will still be able to get married, have children, serve in the military and attend houses of worship of their choice.  No one wants to strip us of any of those rights; they just want the same rights, not special rights, not more rights, not gay rights—the same rights. Mr. Perkins, you drag God into your battle as an accomplice and, to me, that is even more despicable than your messages. You use God as your validation, saying you are fighting to protect His Judeo-Christian values.  You and FRC deserve to be called dangerous and hateful; you and FRC have earned it.

FRC, regrettably, is not the only anti-gay group on the SPLC Hate List.  They are joined, most notably, by:  Abiding Truth, run by Scott Lively (outlined in a post “On Scott Lively and the “Kill the Gays Bill”  (in) Fame” that  I wrote after a long personal series of exchanges with him), American Family Association  (AFA), Concerned Women for America (CWA) and National Organization for Marriage (NOM). All are dispensers of false accusations, myths and lies about GLBT people. I have spent over five years as an active advocate/friend of the GLBT community, especially the gay/trans Christians and, over twenty five years as a devout follower of Jesus.  I have feet in both the conservative Christian world and the GLBT world.  I am in a unique position to assess the controversy. The lies about gay people  really hurt in a deep spot in me. Lies that substantiate the “right” to discriminate.

Here are the top ten myths and lies presented by FRC, CWA, AFA and NOM, (I won’t even touch Scott Lively’s ramblings here. Read the blogpost . He is widely agreed to be in the same special grouping with the Westboro Baptist Church).  I follow each lie with a short commentary and link to where I have written about that topic in the past.

1.    People make a choice to be gay. If you know any/many GLBT people and you have listened to them, you would not entertain this statement as true.  This is a pivotal statement used by anti-gay groups   all    the     time. It is simple and it is powerful.  Here is why.  If being GLBT is a choice, then it is  a conductConduct is not protected by law. But, a class of people, a status of people, is protected by law. If these conservative groups can get us to believe that being GLBT is a choice, then they can hope to withhold civil rights from gay/trans people. Again, conduct is not protected but classes of people are protected.

This house of cards and  lies are starting to tumble down however. In the Supreme Court, a ruling was released on June 28, 2010 for Christian Legal Society(CLS) at University of California, Hastings School of Law v Martinez. CLS contented that they were discriminating against a behavior, the homosexuality of a perspective member, when they denied admission to the group.  We are all clear that state money and property cannot be used to discriminate against a class of people, but CLS said this was about behavior.  In siding with Martinez, the Supreme Court decision called GLBT people a “class”; this is huge, huge. The Supreme Court has now designated GLBT people as a class, not a behavior, not a conduct.  A group of people.

Forget all the myths and bigotry some groups will use to discriminate against GLBT people, the Supreme Court (and every recognized American medical, counseling and psychiatric group) understands that homosexuality/transgenderness is not a choice. They  are a class or status of people.  With that designation, equality will come.

I find it exceedingly sad that the State is leading the charge for social justice when God told His people over 2,700 years ago in the book of Isaiah to “spend” themselves on justice issues. (Isaiah 58: 6-12)  The courts are now leading the way to end this inequality. It should have been Christians churches.  We have been here before on the issues of equality for women and Black Americans. God help us; Your people betrayed a mandate and used Your name to validate discrimination.

2.    People become homosexual because they were sexually abused as children or had distant father/over bearing mother or some variation on bad parenting. GLBT children are no more abused or subject to poor role models than heterosexual children. In fact, fifteen to twenty five percent of all girls were sexually abused and seven to fifteen percent of all boys.  Pretty sad statistic yet, there is no scientific evidence to link abuse and orientation. None. This myth has burdened parents of GLBT children with a guilt and shame that they somehow caused their children’s orientation.  Shame and blame.  And, a lie.

3.    Sexual orientation can be changed. Reparative therapy has been rejected by all the established and reputable American medical, psychological, psychiatric and professional counseling organizations.  The overwhelming majority of people that have “changed” have: chosen to be celibate, were bisexual and not exclusively homosexual, or  opt to live a “straight” life to adhere to strong religious and social pressures. ( Read my post about Sexual Orientation . ) Even the leader of the largest reparative therapy group in the world, Exodus, said just this week that he still is attracted to men. This is my personal belief,  I would say, that if it were not for his paycheck, status and books, he would be more truthful.  I have two close friends who were leaders/founders of Exodus and they are transparent in telling the stories of the lies and lack of integrity in the Exodus- type message.

I have personally interviewed both of them (Michael Bussee and Darlene Bogle ) and this reparative sex industry is a sham and a money machine.  It does not work. I do not know one, not one person who has changed sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Not one.  Have there been cases where some sexual abuse caused a skewed sexual view that was corrected? Sure. I would place that in the less than 1% realm.  Go to Beyond Ex-Gay and Box Turtle Bulletin for reparative therapy stories. The leaders of ex-gay ministries will never say you can change orientation; they appear to say that, but listen.  They even know it is a lie.

4.    Efforts to change someone’s sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual are not harmful nor unethical. Oh really?  Being GLBT is a status, not a behavior or “lifestyle” (this word drives me batty!). Constant pressure to change the core of a person is a violation of humanity and it is an abuse. Telling someone who is same-sex attracted that they must change who they are to be acceptable to family, society, God is harmful and unethical.

Ask an alcoholic or drug addict to get clean and you will see benefit. Ask an adulterer to stop cheating and you see benefit.  Go on and on down the list of “bad behaviors” and encourage folks to eliminate them and you will see life and good. Then, apply this “you must change your orientation” attitude and dictate to a GLBT person, and you will see loneliness, depression, isolation and shame.  I am sure people are well intentioned in wanting others to change and live “the good life” of heterosexuality.  I could not change my orientation, yet, we ask others to change theirs. For our good. For their destruction.

5.    Homosexuals experience a higher level of psychological disorders than do heterosexuals. Really? Reject anyone  repeatedly and from all directions and from all societal institutions and you set them up for personal destruction.  We have done an excellent job of sending out a message of less-thanism from every corner of society to the GLBT community–from churches, government, military and schools.  Want to decrease the shame, depression, addictions, suicidal thoughts and loneliness imposed on GLBT people?  Stop the rejection.  Incredibly simplistic.  Be loving, be accepting, be a safe place.  Love, acceptance and security. That is all we each ask for.  Try extending it and watch the “psychological disorders” melt away.

6.   Children raised by homosexuals are not as healthy as children raised by heterosexuals and,  they suffer harm. First, all studies show children do better with two parents, two, not a male and female, two parents. Want to protect children? Start by not getting divorced and letting them have two, engaged, in-the-same-house parents.  Next, the majority of the children that I personally know in gay male couple families are adopted children.  Children that exit the foster/state/court systems into these loving homes.  In lesbian couple families, many of the children are their own children and they should be with their Mom. Let Mom have a legal partner for the security of  those children. Two parents.  No, none, zero studies exist to state that children raised in same-sex couple families are harmed or suffer any more than we heterosexual parents all-stars effect them.

The courts asked the plaintiffs for  proof of this accusation of  damage to children in same-sex parenting homes in the Prop 8 case in California. This was the big opportunity to lay it out for all to see and guess what?  No evidence was presented.  None. You can lie all you want on TV and in sound bites, but in court, you must bring proof.  No proof was offered. Want to make the home life of children healthier?  Let them have two parents. Let GLBT couples  marry and  create families and  security for their children.

I have specifically  and intentionally spent time with my GLBT friends and their children to observe. As a mother of two grown children  (both straight), I am impressed with what I have seen. GLBT people do not want to destroy family, they want to create it, with their kids and with the tossed away kids.

7.   Homosexuals are more likely to molest children than heterosexuals. This lie can make a person crazy because it is such an offensive lie. This repeated nonsense has damaged relationships of GLBT people within their families and extended families. “Don’t let Aunt Lesbian near the kids and surely not Uncle Gay. They will touch our kids inappropriately and use them sexually.” Molestation of children is NOT an issue of orientation. Repeat, repeat, repeat.  Molestation of children is about being attracted to a child’s age, not gender of the child or the abuser.  Repeat, repeat, repeat.

In a 2008 study of medical records in a Denver emergency room in cases of molestation, 1% had been attributed to GLBT people.  The overwhelming majority of  molestation is inflicted by heterosexual relatives and friends. This lie has to stop. FRC and the others quote and requote 87% of all cases of pedophilia involve a gay person.  WHERE do they get this stuff?  The one report they keep quoting with assurance has been thrown out as sloppy and false work by any expert of repute.  Yet, the rhetoric they call the truth  is robbing GLBT people of family, and family of their gay relatives. Destruction of family?  Yes. For a lie.

8.    Homosexuals are not  seriously disadvantaged by discrimination. GLBT couples are denied 1,138 rights that a married heterosexual couple enjoys under the law. They are discriminated against in the military, in families, in churches and in society. That appears to be pretty serious disadvantage to me.  Imagine, 1,138 rights denied a GLBT couple that wants to commit to love and marriage and cannot. Count to 1,138 and ask yourself: is this not discrimination?

9.     Homosexuals are less likely to enter into a committed relationship, less likely to be sexually faithful to a partner, even if they have one, and are less likely to remain committed for a lifetime, than are heterosexuals. Chicken or egg? Tell people they are less-than and see what you get.  Marriage is an institution in which couples establish state protected, church ordained, committed relationships. And it is denied to GLBT people.  Take away marriage from heterosexual couples and imagine the results. Oh, we have that,  heterosexual people living together.  They don’t seem to have the success rate of marriage. Serial heterosexual monogamy.

Marriage brings protection, a stronger bond of commitment and the support of  family and a community. GLBT people do not enjoy the security of legal marriage in all 50 states.  They do not grow up thinking “who will I marry?”.  Why bother, it is not a reality (yet). So, even when we do extend the right to marry to GLBT people, there will be a season of transition.  And, in time, there will be the similar percentages of success/failure in same-sex marriages as in heterosexual marriages.

10.     GLBT people cannot be Christians. I devote an entire blogsite  Canyonwalker Connections to this issue. The best starting place is the VERSES tab.  If you believe this myth, you are ignoring a movement of God that is exploding around the world. GLBT Christians are growing in number, in spiritual maturity, in gifting and it is happening fast. The best way to see proof  is to visit an affirming congregation. Go to www.Welcomingchurches.org, call  an affirm ing pastor in your area from the list and go see what God is doing in His GLBT children.  Of course they can be Christians.

Lies are evil.  Lies breed fear.  Myths about people or groups become the basis for forming ideology about others.  We have done it to Native Americans, immigrants over our own history, the Irish, the Germans, the Italians, the Jews, the Africans, the Mexicans, the Muslims, the Russians, the “others”. On and on.  If we repeat the myth enough, maybe it will gain muddy traction and stick. This is what FRC and other Hate Groups do so well. They demonize the gay community.  I think they actually believe they are good and fighting the good fight and hanging on to all that is sacred and holy.  But, they are lying. That is discrimination. And, while they are doing it, they are causing destruction, that is hate. Maybe the public backlash of being designated a Hate Group will shame them to reassess their message.

Now, the final word as a Christian. I think there is something worse than making the SPLC’s Hate Groups List.  My first concern would be “am I pleasing God?”.  We all, all, have an image of God in us. We are called to love, respect and serve others. We are called to be shining lights in which others can see some piece of Jesus. Imagine a kicked-out-of-church gay man, a shamed-by-her-family lesbian, a suicidal Mormon teen who knows that honesty means losing family and church, two  men that want desperately to get married and build a family, a young bisexual girl who cuts herself in the shame and pain of her sexuality and religious oppression.  God loves every one of these people, the same way He loves me. God, in His Word, and Jesus, in His life, told me to treat everyone with equality and love. If the church cannot police our own, perhaps God is using secular organizations to slap His children upside the head?  Would not be the first time. I will stand with, beside and in front of my GLBT fellow humans to ensure that they gain equality with me.

Family Research Council, you should be more concerned about where you are on God’s list of naughty or nice, sheep or goats. And Southern Poverty Law Center, I applaud you, thank you, really . . .  thank you.

 

RELATE POSTS:

Scripture and Homosexuality: A Look at the Verses
“Day of Dialogue” from Focus on the Family is Not a Jesus-Action
Dear Alan, My Friends are Gay, Not Broken
“A Queer Thing Happened to America” by Dr. Michael Brown | Review
Statistics That Lie | “The Dutch Gay Marriage Study”
Focus on the Family: You Make Us Look Stupid, Stop Lying
“Medical Consequences of What Homosexuals Do”, Come on, Really?
Three Things My GLBT Christian Friends Want You to Hear

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198 Responses to “The Ten Lies about the GLBT Community Told by Conservative Hate Groups | A Straight Christian Perspective”

  1. Kathy August 22, 2011 at 4:53 pm #

    I’ve read and written multiple articles/blogs on this issue over several years. This one might be the best one I’ve ever seen! Thank you!

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  2. lee May 13, 2011 at 12:40 am #

    @James,

    wow…what a hateful response. your response seriously hurts your credibility on the subject and leads one to believe that this issue isn’t about hate at all, but about one feeling justified in their actions. i believe that there have been those who have acted on the feelings you are describing above….what makes you any better than the hateful men who pistol-whipped a young boy in Idaho about ten or more years back?

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  3. lee May 13, 2011 at 12:25 am #

    hi, kathy:

    i appreciate the passion you have for this subject. i, too, am passionate about the Word of God and loving others.

    i find it interesting that you (and many others) consider a person hateful if they believe that homosexuality is wrong based on the Word of God. (i do know that there ARE people full of hate out there who totally misrepresent God and the Word of God when they are on a self-righteous crusade, but to say that EVERYONE who believes that homosexuality is wrong are hateful is…wrong). i do not store up hate in my heart against anyone who chooses the homosexual path. i have many friends who have chosen this path. i do not judge them…for it is not my place, and i hope that they do not judge me for my path in life. the Bible is very plain about homosexuality – and i’m not talking about old testament law because when Jesus came, he fulfilled that law. have you read Romans lately? i recommend a re-read…especially Romans 1. if you (and others) choose not to believe what the Bible says, it doesn’t mean it’s not true. there is absolute truth in this world, whether we like to “believe” it or not.

    life boils down to a series of choices – everyday. smoking is a choice. am i considered hateful if i tell a smoking friend or relative that smoking leads to cancer which can lead to their death? no, i am concerned for their well-being, but whether they decide to quit smoking or not, i still love them and spend time with them – without judgment. i do not harbor hate in my heart for anyone who chooses the homosexual path. but i do feel that there is a considerable amount of hate in those who support homosexuality for those who believe it is wrong. is that not hypocritical as well? generally speaking, if you hate me because i disagree with you, where is the “right” in that? i am a peace-maker. i am also a justice seeker. i believe that we all should have the right and the freedom to make our own life decisions – without being condemned by others regardless of which side of the fence we stand. don’t judge me for my beliefs. i don’t judge you for yours.

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    Kathy Reply:

    See the response above to another post you left. You clearly hold a lot of WRONG , yes WRONG beliefs about homosexuality. You would benefit greatly by reading throughout this site. Orientation, the verses, marriage. Sexual orientation is not like an addiction. Lee, you have much to learn. I hope you will invest some time in countering the lies that you believe. I am not talking about Scriptural interpretation, I AM talking about lies.

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    Kuildeous Reply:

    @lee,

    >>>i find it interesting that you (and many others) consider a person hateful if they believe that homosexuality is wrong based on the Word of God.<<>>i do not harbor hate in my heart for anyone who chooses the homosexual path.<<<

    That's very noble of you, but something bothers me about this. How does one choose the homosexual path? I keep seeing "choice" being presented, but homosexuality is obviously not a choice. You don't choose who you're attracted to. If it were that easy, then relationships would become so much easier. Abused women could then choose to stop loving their abusive husbands. Someone can choose to be attracted to a less-attractive mate and get into a relationship sooner. A gay teen could choose to be attracted to the opposite sex and avoid the ridicule and abuse from the other students.

    God made homosexuals. Why? Well, why did God make red-headed people or lefties? Why do some people have lots of freckles? Why are there albinos? Why are some people born deaf or with perfect pitch? It's quite obvious that God values diversity, and trying to change homosexuals would be an affront to God's plan.

    The Bible doesn't really give a lot of guidance in terms of how to treat the homosexuals. Unless you are such a diehard that you stone unruly children and refuse to see shrimp, the OT is irrelevant—nobody really follows that anyway, except for very conservative Jews. And the book of Romans was written by Paul and not Jesus. So, following his words is great if you worship Paul, but you couldn't then call yourself a Christian. Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality.

    Oh, Jesus did say, "Love thy neighbor." And you are right that you can still love your neighbor while disapproving of his lifestyle. That's perfectly fine. But, anyone who tries to prevent the gays from marrying each other has ceased to love his neighbor and is no longer serving Christ.

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    lee Reply:

    @Kuildeous,

    i understand what you are trying to say, but under that reasoning we need to stop discriminating against serial killers, child molesters, and rapists, for they, too, were created and are loved by God. what should we say then? should we stop trying to rehabilitate these individuals? a rehabilitated child molester may still desire children – does that make it right? i think MOST people would say the answer to that is no. God loves all of his creation, you are right, but he also gave us guidelines to live by. i don’t worship paul and find the idea absurd. i do, however, believe that the Bible is the Holy, Living Word of God. i am not going to pick and choose what scriptures i want to believe just to fit my purposes. i am going to live to love those around me and do my best to live in a way that is pleasing to God. i know that what the Bible says offends a lot of people, but that does not change its truth.

    what did Jesus say to the religious people who brought him the adulteress? he said, “he who is without sin cast the first stone.” the lesson? don’t judge each other – none of us are without sin, so how can we judge? what did Jesus say to the adulteress? “go and sin no more” the lesson? be free from your sin. live in freedom, love one another, and don’t judge others.

    and kathy, we’re only going to find out who is “right” when we stand before God. until then, i’ll let His Word be my guide.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    I could go on and on with this Auralee and it will make NO impact. Discussing “serial killers, child molesters, and rapists” in conjunction with glbt people is beyond ignorant. I can’t even go there with you. And check your Bible on the notes around John 8: 1-11. And consider quoting it as if Jesus said it. He talked about love quite a bit more. Auralee, when you are done concentrating on your own sin and if you still have time left, then look to others. Until then, you are asked to love. Which you are doing miserably. You are a time waste my dear young one. I hope you grow in mercy and knowledge and wisdom and I hope for your child’s sake that she is not a lesbian, bisexual or transgender. You would both be in for a VERY rough road. I get mail almost every day from kids raised in homes that do not give them love and acceptance. Auralee, you are welcome to read but I can tell you would be a time sucker with your silly statements. Go visit those two churches, you could use the education.

    Kuildeous Reply:

    @lee,
    “stop discriminating against serial killers, child molesters, and rapists”

    Now you are encroaching on the ludicrous. You want to know why some people assume that Christians are being hateful in their beliefs? Your words say it all. You immediately group gays with murderers and rapists. You use one hand to plead innocence, but you use your other hand to deliver that very hateful that you claim you’re innocent of.

    And the answer is that of course we should not extend the same rights to murderers and rapists. Then again, homosexuals are nowhere near that caliber. On one hand, you have someone whose urges and desires rob a victim of innocence, trust, and even life. On the other hand, you have someone whose urges and desires have no victim.

    The fact that you would so casually compare the two shows that you have no respect or love for the homosexual. Really, there should be a Godwin law any time someone compares a homosexual to a murderer.

    “i am not going to pick and choose what scriptures i want to believe just to fit my purposes”

    Then the more power to you. So, you do not shave your face, wear two different fabrics, or eat shrimp? And the authorities are very understanding when you stone disobedient children and people who claim to be pagan?

    The Bible was written for a different time. It was also written by man. It was also altered by man. Many religions claim that they have texts divinely inspired. Maybe they are, but one thing all of these texts have in common is that they were put to paper by a human force, and humans are not perfect.

    That’s not to say the Bible doesn’t have its uses, but the Bible should be appreciated in the positive message that it sends. There’s a reason that Christians focus on the New Testament.

    And if you follow Paul’s words over Christ’s, then you are choosing to worship Paul. Interesting that the son of God does not express disdain for homosexuals, but you would choose to follow a mortal instead.

    “live in freedom, love one another, and don’t judge others”

    This is the kind of message that Christians should be focusing on. So, let the homosexuals live their lives in freedom, love them for who they are, and don’t judge them. They only have to answer to one authority, and that authority shouldn’t be you.

  4. Ryne January 31, 2011 at 12:18 pm #

    It’s David and BathSHEba, not David and BathHEba :p lol jk. Thanks for your support Kathy!

    [Reply]

    BarryTN Reply:

    Funny. I could have sworn it was David and Jonathan. “You have been very pleasant to me. Your love to me was more wonderful Than the love of women” Samuel 1:23ff. Generally regarded by scholars as a Biblical example of homo-eroticism,

    [Reply]

  5. BarryTN January 27, 2011 at 9:52 pm #

    I was raised in a right-wing fundamentalist church, and it regularly spewed the kind of bilious nonsense you refer to. At around 13, I began questioning whether there was a god at all; it is no coincidence that time was about the onset of puberty and sexual awareness. I had endured considerable religious abuse from my elders, and unrelenting bullying from my classmates in my “Christian school”, and basically had been told that God hates people like me simply because I liked boys. Along with some other experiences of a more intellectual sort, these things led me to reject theism entirely. I spent a great deal of time in my 20′s attacking Christianity whenever possible, and some 25 years later I still feel a bit hostile.

    While I can never agree with Christian or other supernatural/magic/religious ideas on a rational basis, I do appreciate when someone as yourself holds those beliefs in a humane way. Too often religious people are represented by the lunatic fringe – a bunch of self-righteous, Fox News watching, profoundly ignorant bigots. It is refreshing to be reminded that not all religious people are cultural Neanderthals. Thank you for your post.

    [Reply]

  6. John Powell January 26, 2011 at 3:53 am #

    Thank you.

    [Reply]

  7. Alison January 25, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    Kathy,

    I am a bisexual far-left winged liberal atheist and I would be absolutely HONORED to hold hands with you and spread the message of peace and love. Whew! That sounds so retro, like I’m a hippie! Haha, but in all serious, where you believe in a god and where I believe in no god, this article of yours warms my heart and makes me happy to see a person with beliefs that GENERALLY (I use that term carefully) shame and fight against homosexuality. Why anyone has ever worried about what goes on in the privacy of people’s sexual lives is beyond me. And I often hear the old argument that sodomy itself is the main issue that religious groups have with homosexuality (somehow gay women don’t really play into this…Hm, strange), yet just the other day I came across a christian website about the “miracle of a sexual awakening between husband and wife sanctioned by god” and one page talked about the joys of anal sex between them and why god would sanction their anal sex because it was between a “man and woman married under the lord”. I was extremely confused by how these women were rationalizing how sodomy was okay for them but when two men engaged in it, it was a “sin”. I guess they were assuming because they were married it was okay, but here’s the thing, GAYS CAN’T MARRY. Now, isn’t that unfair?

    Oh, I went off on a tangent, sorry about that! But, long story short, your views are refreshing and wonderful. I love that you did research outside of the bible or from authors who use the bible as their reference.

    THANK YOU, and I hope you can spread your wisdom to other Christians. Much respect and love to you, Kathy.

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  8. Robyn January 25, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    “It is impossible to love God and hate his commands.”

    But still YOU think it’s possible to love God and hate his creatures. What’s up with that? I am sick to death of so-called Christians wanting there to be one set of rules for themselves, and another one for people like me. Want to obey His laws? Then start by giving up judging me, and telling me that what I do is sin. According to what I read in the Bible, what you’re doing is far more sinful than what I do.

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  9. Mike January 23, 2011 at 11:20 am #

    Friends,

    Tim’s views are clearly clouded by serious bigotry and homophobia.

    That does not make Kathy or anyone else who works for equal rights a “homofascist.”

    Don’t for a second think that only liberals are interested in equal rights, that is a lie, most of my friends, both liberal and conservative support equal rights for EVERYONE, even if they are gay, or black, or a woman, or all three!

    Indeed historical Fascism’s position on homosexuality is almost identical to Tim’s views.

    People who work for equal rights really don’t care about how sick or bigoted your thinking is, they really don’t. It’s when you take action to deny equal rights to others that followers of Jesus Christ, both liberal and conservative object.

    Using the Bible to justify bigotry is indeed what Fascism is all about. Remember, Nazi Germany and Italy were two of the most Christian nations on earth in the 1930′s.

    Ending discrimination, particularly discrimination based on the Bible is anti-Fascism, sorry, it is.

    Mike

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  10. anddrea January 22, 2011 at 6:07 pm #

    “If Tim is a bigot, then you are homofascist. Kathy, and all you radical liberals: you can turn America into a thought police society, and even imprison Christians who reject homosexual lifestyle as the Bible teaches, we will not change what we believe. Therefore you already lost.”

    Sounds like those that said NO to interracial marriages and allow the ‘negoes’ into schools with the precious white children. Next women will have the right to vote. Some people cannot be enlightened no matter how much they read the bible.

    homofascist are almost as bad as christianists.

    Christianist: militant arrogant christians who refuse to consider anything except their version of christianity. Its THEIR word vs Gods word and God tends to lose, they cannot be wrong.

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  11. MWade January 20, 2011 at 1:46 am #

    I am a devout atheist, but your position on the coexistence of religion and civil liberties (as they pertain to the GLBT community) is articulate and commendable. Your words have opened my eyes to a more tolerant understanding of Christianity. Your work is not easy, but it deserves the praises of heaven. Love = Marriage.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    Thank you. It may seem a bit sill, but when I get an encouraging comment from an atheist, I know tha I am showing the the God I believe in for Who He is. Who would want much to do with the God many of us represent? Thank you fro taking the time to read and comment.

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  12. Fellwing January 18, 2011 at 9:13 pm #

    Kathy,

    I’m glad you wrote this article, because this not only touches on the GLBT problem. It touches on the tyranny and hypocrisy problem a lot of the churches have. I myself am not necessarily GLBT, but I’ve been discriminated against and made to fear in a similar way before. I was forced to attend Episcopalian church every Sunday, much against my will. I never understood anything that was being said in the sermons, so I didn’t know nor hear any of the word. Instead, I got my SINGLE mother threatening me that if I tried/thought/felt anything Pagan she’d have me exorcised. -Exorcised-.

    I spent a lot of time away from any Church or Light after that. I moved in with my Father and found who I was. Then I met my current girlfriend, a non-denominational Christian, and she showed me the true Light of God, along with her church (somewhat). Her and I do disagree on this issue, but -only a little-. She made the argument that there may be sometimes psychological issues where the person might think that the opposite sex just isn’t for them, so they turn to homosexuality. And they’re still unhappy. And I have to agree with that a -teeny- bit. Those with damage who turn to GLBT as an answer are just as fake as the Christians who don’t accept GLBT people. Not necessarily in a bad, fear mongering, abusive way, but more in a lost and sad kind of way. I think it’s Christians like you and my girlfriend that are and will shed the True Light of God in the world, the truth being that if homosexuality -actually makes you happy-, then go for it, and enjoy it, and be happy. Make a family, raise happy, healthy children, do whatever it is that you want to do. I fully support that. Happiness. But if not, seek what truth you must to set yourself free from your damage, so that you can be happy.

    I, as a Christian, stand by you Kathy. (Thought your #9 argument from a college philosophy/argument/debate standpoint could use a little work. Cite something, a study, whatever, just to make it stand on its own feet.) And I hope you continue what you do, regardless of the hate speech you’ve received here.

    ~Fellwing

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    thank you for the comments (and I will look at #9—I am writing a book which will expand on everything I say. But, in the meantime, I will see about amending this with a bit more strength.)
    I can’t stop doing this, God put the passion in me. He is more persistent and has far more sway over me than any of these meanies or objectors.

    [Reply]

  13. Anonymous January 15, 2011 at 11:17 am #

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  14. Kathy January 15, 2011 at 11:08 am #

    I don’t even know what a “homofascist” is and I am labeled one. I’ll take “Christian” for eternity , Alex. You seem pretty angry, Sam. Is there maybe a good church in you area that can melt some of that off you?

    [Reply]

  15. Wendy Leigh January 11, 2011 at 12:46 pm #

    Tim worships Dominionist theology and plans for the final Leviticus solution for GLBT’s living honestly in truth with self and God. Hitler did too.

    [Reply]

  16. Kyle Heath January 11, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    I’m not a Christian. The message of Christianity, and I think all religions, gets convoluted into a user’s ulterior motives all too often. I’d rather try my hardest to just lead a good life and be a good person.

    That being said, I wholly respect your take on Christianity and what it means to you. I can absolutely respect your frame of mind and am glad there are free thinking minds that quite simply understand life and everyone’s right to happiness. Any discrimination of good people in any form has no place in society.

    We probably don’t agree on many levels, but I will always respect the way you think and the steps you’re taking in representing what you believe in.

    Take care.

    [Reply]

  17. Mike January 10, 2011 at 8:04 pm #

    Tim, Wow is right. Kathy is speaking the truth, the truth backed up by scripture, science, law and common sense. Will you allow truth to be your anti-Christ??…

    If anyone did, see the truth as anti-Christ, I would also expect them to fail on the most important commands, such as to love your neighbor as you love yourself. That gives everyone a good idea of where you stand. Judgmental self-righteousness is not an attribute of Jesus Christ.

    Matthew 7:3 tells us all about people who see glaring sin in everyone else, those who give themselves permission to damn others, to reject others simply because of their poor reading of scripture, ignorance, and irrational fear… what’s that word again? lol

    [Reply]

  18. Kathy January 8, 2011 at 1:41 pm #

    The good News brings life. Your words are death

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  19. Single Mom December 31, 2010 at 7:59 am #

    #6 completely dismisses single parenting, while I enjoyed most of your writing, an shared it with my ignorant family members, I DID get divorced, and I am polyamorous, and you perpetuating the stereotypes and bullshit studies that HARM my family is quite disheartening.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    i think you might be reading something into it that I am NOT saying. I was a single parent (they are now adults), I was raised by a single parent. But do I believe it is best to have two engaged parents, yes I do. That is statistically shown to be best. Not my study, not my opinion—the result of study. Kids do best with two adults sharing the load, sharing the finances, supporting each other.
    I KNOW it is a struggle to raise children in a single parent home. I am a result (I think my Mom did a GREAT job and I adore her to this day). I did the absolute best I could with my children. Were they better off with one parent than in crazy strife and tension–yes. I was addressing the general rule and the stats. It was a short point i was making and they answer was with regards to parent of opposite sexes being the only way.Please don’t read beyond that. I surely know the struggles of being a single Mom. And the joys of being a single Mom when the husband/wife thing was not conducive to parenting in my specific case. Nor my own Mom’s case. Forgive me if my words hurt or offended you.

    [Reply]

    Single Mom Reply:

    What about MORE than two parental figures? Do you think it is safe to assume kids would do better with more than 2 compared to just 2?

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    I have no clue–I have never seen studies.

    Single Mom Reply:

    You may find this one interesting: http://www.stonehearthnewsletters.com/single-parent-family-counseling-therapy/bias/

    D'Glenn Reply:

    I would have to say it is _not_ safe to _assume_ that more than two parents would be better for the children than just two parents, but I do think that is _likely_ to be the case. In the absence of actual data, I can envision several reasons for it to be as good, a few (big) reasons for it to be better, and none off the top of my head for it to be worse, but like Kathy, I’d really like to see well-designed studies to confirm or refute my hunch. Though the sample size is down in the “anecdote” range rather than enough to really count as “data”, the kids I’ve seen grow up in poly households seem to do just fine. But my poly friends all have more in common than just being polyamourous, so all kinds of factors could be skewing my encouraging observations.

    Kathy Reply:

    Sam–you are an attention drain. I am blocking you. Not for what you say. You seem to fixate on small issues and take too much valuable time. I reported you to GCN as well. Find a place to work out your personal problems. I do not want to be part of that loop. Goodbye.

    [Reply]

  20. Helen December 28, 2010 at 9:21 pm #

    This is amazing! Thank you, Kathy! Shared!

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  21. Beth December 23, 2010 at 8:17 am #

    I am a non-Christian who was introduced to your blog by SPLC. Excellent points you make here. I’m especially enjoying this one: “Even the leader of the largest reparative therapy group in the world, Exodus, said just this week that he still is attracted to men.” Pretty good evidence that reparation therapy doesn’t work.

    Perhaps you have mentioned some of these other LGBT-friendly Christian sites in the past:
    http://www.christianlesbians.org/
    https://www2.cathedralofhope.com/
    These are just two I’ve found, but sadly they get none of the press the hate orgs do.No doubt you know of more.

    [Reply]

    Joseph lopez Reply:

    I am not a christian , actually an atheist , I come from a scientific point of view. I believe that homosexuality is not natural, you cannot procreate naturally but need artificial means to reproduce and so homosexuality cannot be natural. In the animal kingdom there is a male and female, why for procreation , If the homosexual community can show proof that in nature there is homosexuality example (Male lion and Male lion or Female lioness and female lioness) 2) If nature intended for males to have sex with males than dont you think that there would be way do that (anal sex is not natural , the anus is not made for that, ask any doctor about that and 3) If homosexuality is natural than why have the opposite sex, again we come back to procreation? If you place a homosexual community on an the island and came back in 100 years it would be a sure beat that the community would have died out, why because there is no way to make babies and so therefore the conclusion must be that homosexuality is not natural.

    Thank you

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    ahhh, where to begin? Here is the short short version:
    over 450 animal species and over 150 bird species have documented same sex behavior.
    lots of people have sex and cannot procreate–hey I am one–I am past menopause, shall I never remarry or have a sexual relationship?
    You have clearly never talked to a gay man about sex. The male g-spot is IN the anus. Perhaps God knew what He was doing when He made it pleasurable for a man to have sex vaginally or anally (or orally) AND the woman’s “fun center” is on the outside and does not need penetration. That was very thoughtful of God to ensure that my GLBT brothers and sisters could enjoy what He created (my view that He is Creator).
    And, lot of GLBT people have sex and create babies with the opposite sex via really good fantasizing with the opposite sex. People do it ALL the time, it is called Mixed Orientation Marriage. And those match ups would have heterosexual children which would procreate and homosexual children which may or may not.
    And that is just for starters on responses.

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    Kuildeous Reply:

    You are confusing “natural” with “efficacious.”

    If the only point of sex is to procreate, then you are correct that homosexuality fails to fulfill that. But, that doesn’t make it any less natural than swimming when thrown into a pond.

    First off, there are animals that engage in homosexual behavior.
    Secondly, you have an extremely narrow view of what constitutes sexuality. It’s more than just penetration. Plenty of homosexuals do not engage in anal sex. There are lots of ways to get your partner’s rocks off. Granted, only one method gets you babies, but as I’ve said, this is an argument over what is natural, not what is procreative. Also, it’s not just men who respond to anal stimulation. Women do too.
    Third, by ruling out methods that don’t produce babies, you are saying that menopausal women are unnatural, that naturally barren women are unnatural, and that men with erectile dysfunction are unnatural. Yet, we see them in nature all the time.

    And yes, if a community were entirely homosexual, then reproduction rates would plummet. What’s the point with that? We don’t have a species that is 100% homosexual. It is 10% homosexual, and that is not slowing down the population growth one bit. So, why punish them for not contributing to the gene pool?

    Your claim gives me a chuckle, because that’s exactly how I felt 20 years ago. I was an atheist, but I wasn’t over my homophobia, so I made the exact same claim you did. I was schooled pretty quickly, and I realized just how foolish that thinking was. You may be an atheist, but your assertion proves you do not come from a scientific point of view.

    [Reply]

    Gareth Reply:

    Joe:

    You fail to mention that variation is a part of nature. Genetic variation is present in every species, and who is to say that homosexuality is not caused by genetic factors? For example, the proportion of homosexuals in society (though numbers are affected by response bias) generally hover at a fixed number, assumed to be 5-10%. There are documented biological and genetic variations in homosexual persons, including size and clusters of neurons in the brain (Broca and Weirnicke’s Areas are enlarged, the hypothalamus is enlarged), hair directional spin (clockwise vs. counter-clockwise), size of the digits of the hand, etc. Variation is an integral part of the evolution and protection of the species, as certain alleles are weeded out through the course of thousands of years.

    There have been studies done on the reproduction habits of certain species, and one that is of particular interest is ducks. A few studies have found that homosexual behavior in ducks has been recorded, and has not otherwise affected their mating patterns. In other words, not only have they recorded male-male and female-female ducks pairs, but, they have also found that they still mated for life.

    Also, you fail to mention that other factors can influence the prevalence of homosexuality in a population. Studies have shown that certain chemicals released into the environment, including toxic methylmercury, have led to increased rates of homosexuality in animal mating pairs. With the environment constantly bearing the brunt of large industrial toxic discharges, it is reasonable to assume that with the more obvious increases in diseases and malignacies like cancer, there could conceivably be a link between the two.

    Nature is evolving and changing all around us – and we contribute a great deal to those changes. Whether or not you believe that it is “natural” (and I am inclined to believe that it is quite natural, though it may do nothing to propagate the species), it is evident that the matter is out of human hands. You are attracted to the opposite gender – thats great! Make more babies. But you fail to realize that for the homosexual, they were not given the choice of a straight orientation. It is inconceivable for you to contemplate sexually intimate relations with another man, Joe; but, it is inconceivable for a homosexual person to consider sexual relations with the opposite sex. It is a sad state of affairs, and one for which they never asked. So no matter how you feel on the subject, please remember to treat the gays and lesbians you know with love, respect, and kindness – they are living out their lives the only way they know how. They never chose it, they never bargained for it – they are merely the victims of natural variation.

    [Reply]

    Reed B Reply:

    Joseph l -
    Thank you for demonstrating that there are a wide variety of atheist points of view about “homosexuality.”
    Funny, however: both “Fundamental/Essentialist Atheists” and “Fundamentalist Christians” seem to boi “homosexuality” down to “homoSEXuality” (because it’s “all about the breeders and their breeding”).
    Both groups seem to share a “Breeder Supremacist” notion.
    Your “rational argument,” however, is the product of laziness. A simple hour of Googling for “homosexuality in the animal kingdom” would provide evidence of over 500+ examples of various same-sex couplings (both sexual and emotional/affectional “life-mating”) in various species.
    Do better.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    Giggling and wishing I could be more clever.

  22. PAT'sN(poets around the Nation) December 22, 2010 at 11:06 am #

    A piece I wrote a minute ago about gays + adoption, B/C kids want to be loved they dont care who it is really, doing the loving

    http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=60449667441&topic=17857&post=93148&bcode=ImVDI

    [Reply]

  23. Sam December 20, 2010 at 4:18 pm #

    Late to the party, but – this bisexual, transsexual, Christian man says a massive thank you for this article :)

    I’ve only been a Christian for a few years, and I wrestled with the whole Christian views on homosexuality thing for ages. After doing my own research, and especially on finding articles like this, I feel more vindicated by the minute. I frequently hear of arguments within the Anglican church about this, and it drives me nuts – as Jesus said once, they “strain out a gnat yet swallow a camel” XP

    I have been very lucky with my church in that they’re willing to support me in my journey from female to male – I just wish they’d change their views on their “love the sinner, hate the sin” approach ¬_¬

    [Reply]

  24. Chris Morehouse December 19, 2010 at 2:52 pm #

    This gay, Christian, adoptive father of a wonderful son with autism says, “Bless you.”

    [Reply]

    AfroditeOhki Reply:

    This heterosexual, kardecist spiritism christian woman who hasn’t started a family yet says “Bless you” too in favor of her dozens of dear homo and bisexual friends who she thinks are the most loving and wonderful people in the world.

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  25. dg December 18, 2010 at 2:21 pm #

    Exodus has challenged those who respond to homosexuals with ignorance and fear, and those who uphold homosexuality as a valid orientation. These extremes fail to convey the fullness of redemption found in Jesus Christ, a gift which is available to all who commit their life and their sexuality to Him. JESUS FREES US HE DOES NOT LEAVE US IN OUR SINS! YOU DONT HAVE TO CHANGE TRULY REPENT AND LET HIM DO THE CHANGING FOR YOU, HE WILL! READ THESE BEAUTIFUL TESTIMONIES OF GAY AND LESBIAN PEOPLE WHO HAVE CHANGED.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    I removed your link to Exodus. It has harmed too many people I love. Even the President, Alan Chambers STILL struggles with same sex attractions. Did you know that? I will let other posters inform you. I will tell you, on this , you are ABSOLUTELY wrong. Orientation does not change. The who “do”: choose celibacy, were bisexual in all likelihood. Read the post called I’m a Zero and try to unlearn the lie.

    [Reply]

    Wendy Reply:

    Here, this may clear things up, from the founders of Exodus

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDiYeJ_bsQo

    [Reply]

    lee Reply:

    @Kathy, why do believe that those who try to show another side of the story are filled with “lies”? if you really believe that there is beauty and healing in diversity, then welcome different voices. why discount another person’s valid experience of transitioning from homosexuality to heterosexuality? how is there harm in that? or are you suggesting that people should chose homosexuality over heterosexuality…are you now saying that one is better than the other?

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    I think Lee you are missing and important point–a very important one that if you read my post you would consistently see over and over. I do not label people with a different point of view as “hateful”. What I DO see as hateful is LYING and MISREPRESENTING.THAT is what got FRC on the hate Groups list and I fully agree with that assessment.
    I hear many of these same LIES told over and over. You can certainly hold alternate interpretations of Scripture, but when social facts and research are blatantly taken out of context or completely ignored–that is cerainly not love. And if wer are to be following the Jesus definision of love (now I am assuming you have a Christian view of this issue, as do I),if you are not operating in Biblical love and are indeed lying and targeting, that will fall under the category of HATE in my thinking.
    I hear pastors, religious leaders and others mix together this concoction of theology, twisted data and long ago refuted lies and duct tape them together in a thus sayeth the LORD.
    And, I do not personally know ONE PERSON who was fully homosexual (not bisexual,but fully homosexual) who is now heterosexual. Not even the president of Exodus. That is pretty telling. I know over a thousand glbt people, mostly Christian and NOT ONE is no longer homosexual. This may serve as an answer to many of your posts. Thank you for reading.

    Lee Reply:

    DG, many of us spent a lot of years in ministries like Exodus. We committed ourselves to a change that, for a lot of us, never came. What do you say to us? How long have you walked this path? 5 weeks? 25 years? What about the beautiful testimonies of people who HAVEN’T changed?

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    Jason D Reply:

    Kathy was right to remove your link, Even the biased Jones and Yarhouse study, done by pro-reparative therapy researchers could only find a few hundred subjects (subjects given as cream of the crop “successes” by the ex-gay industry themselves) Through interviews they found most of those few hundred had returned to homosexuality. The 11 or so “success” stories who were left when the dust settled? All of them, I REPEAT, all of them admitted that their sexuality was “complicated” and that they ALL STILL ARE ATTRACTED TO THE SAME SEX. Still. After years of prayer, study, and work, their orientation didn’t change. Not one bit.

    The ex-gay industry only changes two things:
    (1) they change the money from the gay person’s pocket to their own greedy pockets.
    (2) They change the person’s opinion and outlook on their orientation.

    It’s the equivalent of getting an expensive “makeover” where they do not do any surgery, do not have you work out or diet, or apply makeup or cut your hair or give you a new wardrobe, they just convince you to believe you’re young, beautiful, and in shape —charge you hefty fees for it, and make you feel terribly guilty if you don’t buy into the lie, too.

    [Reply]

  26. Kathy December 18, 2010 at 8:56 am #

    I gave you the opportunity to clean this up and you have elected not to , so I am deleting it entirely. I hope you learn how to love others like Jesus did.

    [Reply]

    lee Reply:

    @Kathy,

    it’s interesting that you are censoring things so much.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    Censoring? Hmmm? Interesting.

    [Reply]

  27. Diana December 17, 2010 at 10:11 am #

    Thank you for presenting straightforward and cogent arguments. I am so appreciative that you took the time to create this list and to do so in a professional and articulate way. Thank you, thank you, thank you. As a college educator, I can refer some of the students who come my way to your list – as a non-Christian it can be difficult to gain traction in attempting to debunk some of these claims – this helps.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    I think the Christian POV and beliefs are important to understand since we a piece piece in the power brokers (ugly, yet true) on this one. Similarly, in Uganda, the “kill the gays bill” may not make it to law, but it certainly has made it to the churches. That is tremendously dangerous and will sit there like poison for years.
    For GLBT people to understand the lies being told, maybe that will better equip them for a more intelligent conversation. Even with a Christian. I actually find that the Bible is most times just a book being held. a bigot is a bigot with or without the Bible.
    Years of hearing this stuff as TRUTH from pulpits is effective. We hear real truth mixed with this and then assume ALL of it is truth. Not so. If I have to put A aside as a lie, then what does that do to B, C , D . . . ? When you hold a rules oriented faith (which is NOT what Christianity is, but many twist it that way) and you think you have it understood as to what is good enough, what you need to do to please God and then a piece gets pulled out link in Jango, how many pieces can be pulled out before it all collapses? THAT is VERY scary to some people. They NEED to know that they line up to a pasing grade.
    Speaking of passing grades, can I get an A(men) from you prof??
    Thanks for the read and referrals.

    [Reply]

  28. dale chatman December 16, 2010 at 8:34 pm #

    i am afraid that the that many respondents here only listen to anti-gay people and they don’t realize that this is a vocal minority
    as a Christian the main thing i get from reading the Bible is that we should love one another as Christ has loved us….that we are not to judge each other….
    i don’t lke loud militant people and this is my own ‘hang-up’ but this is true of any person who like to control others and a few of the gays i have known are in that catagory and they have told be that this showed i was prejudiced but they are wrong
    let us all accept each other and reach out with love and acceptance

    [Reply]

  29. Joe December 16, 2010 at 6:38 pm #

    Hi – I’m a gay man who has been with my partner for 21 years, we have helped to raise three great kids, (although at times they make us crazy!) who I would not change for the world! We both work in the health care field, one a clinical social worker and the other in pediatric trauma medicine. It’s a joy, a real gift, to know that a conservative Christian can also be a supporter of social justice. Merry Christmas and thank you Canyon Walker Connections!

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    and to you. Three kids–yikes–I had two and yes, they are the greatest joy I have. They are 23and 25 now and one still makes me crazy once in awhile (because she is like me–strong, independent and outspoken AND uber-inclusive, she LOVES her gay friends!)

    [Reply]

  30. Peter December 16, 2010 at 6:19 pm #

    I LOVE YOU KATHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) Thank you for supporting us! You really help restore my faith in Christ!

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    blushing…..it will change.

    [Reply]

    Elizabeth Reply:

    I couldn’t agree more, this post was extremely refreshing! Thank you!

    BTW, my father is gay and I’m not… I absolutely love it when people try to make that argument with me when they don’t yet realize that 50% of my DNA is from a gay male.

    [Reply]

  31. angelica December 16, 2010 at 2:43 pm #

    Hi Kathy. Thank you again for an amazing post. You truly give me hope that a straight christian person can truly understand believe and live like a being of love. This post has made my heart race. So many times I have sufferred these “lies”from the lips of my parents. You see, they are pentecostal pastors. Hispanic at that. They truly believe what they think to be gods word. In spite of how they believe. I am living at home behind my parents house. I still go to to church but I have growned thick skinned when listening to antigay sermons that my dad preaches. (He has lessened the topic since I came out to them) or maybe I just haven’t really noticed since I tend to tune out during the sermons. I love my parents. I was sexually abused as a child. And I think they feel guilty as parents. I just don’t know how to talk to them. But I do wish I could help them understand. Understand that I am still therir daughter and that this is how I was meant to be..as the same thing as being their daughter.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    That IS a tough situation. They are stuck, they are feeling guilty and they are uninformed. How you live you life in front of them may challenge their beliefs.
    For YOU though–if you are near and can get to the GCN Conf in Denver in early January or in Austin in July. The TEN conference will be there. It could give you what you need to endure the lies. And do check out the link for Welcoming Churches in the post. Sneak off there on non-Sundays.
    Thanks for telling me your story. K

    [Reply]

  32. boykitten December 15, 2010 at 6:52 pm #

    I was brought up Roman Catholic so I found this particular interesting. I am not a believer, so no longer practising, but I do still attend church and other religious events when at home and although I am not verbally out to many of those who attend I pass 99.99% and so, on request, have spoken to many of them about how I am now (i.e. a ftm transsexual with a male partner) and why.
    The point I’m trying to make here is that I have never had a negative reaction from any of them – not even from the parish priest himself – so I’ve never experienced religion based prejudice or seen it perpetrated on another.

    I agree with most of what the article says but would like to see the evidence for statements like “Fifteen to twenty five percent of all girls were sexually abused” – I think this is a skewed statistic if taken about the population as a whole which it seems to assume, and so weak support for the topic.

    Plus the argument against the ‘myth’ that “Homosexuals are less likely to enter into a committed relationship” is shaky – gay men in particular *are* statistically far more promiscuous and far less likely to practice safe sex than any other group and there is a lot of supporting unbiased scientific evidence for this.

    In essence, I appreciate the sentiment overall but I think that when arguing that another party has no back up for their claims you should have references for your own statements.

    BK

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    thank you for the comments and i understand your point. It is so difficult to keep it short and still detailed enough. I appreciate that insight and will try to clarify. thanks

    [Reply]

    Psychologist Reply:

    Actually, the studies are often misinterpreted. The studies to which you refer show that sexual exclusivity is less frequently considered a necessary component of a ‘committed relationship’ between two men– keep in mind also that these studies were limited in terms of sample population, cross-cultural generalisability, etc. This summer, I had occasion to converse with some authors of these studies who gave Prop 8 testimony supporting equal marriage. An important point is that just because sexual exclusivity may not be as important to as many M-M couples as M-W couples, does NOT mean gay men are necessarily ‘more promiscuous’. Studies showed that when partnered gay men had sex with someone other than their primary partner, a smaller percentage of men felt this act had a severely negative impact on the stability of their partnership than straight couples. Also, the largest groups practicing unprotected sex are women and men having sex with each other, not gay men– that is a myth. What is clear from recent studies is that gay couples often have different approaches to relationship rules. So yes, there are some differences, but it’s inappropriate to label those as ‘promiscuity’ without understanding the complexity involved. And again, straight people are having far more sex without barriers– how do you think babies are born anyway?

    [Reply]

    Psychologist Reply:

    Excellent site, Kathy. Just to be clear, I was responding to boykitten’s reference to gay men as ‘promiscuous’ and having barrier-free sex. You may want to read and digest some relevant articles by Ann Peplau, Charlotte Patterson, etc. for a more nuanced understanding. I can also send you some relevant papers by email if you wish, as this is a topic about which I have some awareness in terms of actual research findings. While it may be difficult to figure out how to acknowledge and celebrate actual difference, refute assumed difference, and highlight the larger point that gay couples and families are of equal value and benefit, these are all very worthy aims.

    Kathy Reply:

    wow, some simple point from study. I need to know you!

    Kiriff Reply:

    There’s also another issue.

    Male promiscuity has been traditionally more acceptable than female. While there has been some changes in the recent past with feminist movements – specially in first world countries -, the distinction still exists. A male with multiple partners is admired while a female who does it is considered to be a slut.

    That means that in the heterosexual world, a woman must deviate from the role society expects from her in order to a promiscuous hook-up occurs. In a man-man relationship, there are no society boundaries. My point is, even though gay men seem to be more promiscuous, actually we’re just as promiscuous as any other man (I’m a gay man, btw).

    Anyway, none of this is applicable to female-female relationships, which, following the same reasoning, would be expected to be less promiscuous than heterosexuals and even out the odds.

    Anyway, what Kathy states sounds true to me: if we are already kept apart from society, we might as hell do what we want. We’re not getting married anyway, and will always been seen as paria… does it really make that much of a difference if we’re seen as promiscuous as well?

    All that said, here’s my point: I do not think promiscuity is morally wrong. I’d rather have one partner, but that is ME. I like the idea of loving one person, but I do have a few (straight) friends who are all over multiple partners. It works for them, so be it, as long as no-one is being cheated or mislead.

    Jason D Reply:

    You may also want to pick up Dan Savage’s “Skipping Towards Gomorrah” He goes through the 7 deadly sins in America. In the chapter on Lust, I believe, he gets acquainted with some straight swingers: married couples who have sex with others. There are conferences held for swinger couples, and at just ONE conference there were more married heterosexual swinging couples attending that conference than the highest estimate of gay people in America.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    I will. And thanks for the tip. I wish there were not so much hypocrisy publicly documented to make Christians look worse, but I think were are to be under more scrutiny.

  33. Grey December 15, 2010 at 2:34 pm #

    As a closeted trans man due to my conservative, Christian, family’s views, I find this article absolutely amazing. Someday, should I ever decide to come forward about my self, I shall show this to them. I can only pray that they take it to heart.

    You have made fantastic points, and I wish more people could see this article and absorb its message. Thank you for taking the time to write this.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    I know trans folks suffer even more from ignorance about them. Check out these two articles and maybe put all three in the Fam’s Christmas stocking???
    http://canyonwalkerconnections.com/2010/11/im-a-zero/ Sexual Orientation
    http://canyonwalkerconnections.com/2010/07/transgenders-can-size-14-heels-keep-you-out-of-heaven/ Transgenders

    [Reply]

  34. Sara December 15, 2010 at 11:46 am #

    Kathy,

    Thank you for writing such an insightful and poignant post. This was linked from a transgender forum, and I was hesitant to read it, especially when I saw the name of the post. I have to say, though, that I’m very glad I took the chance. You have highlighted ten of the worst lies that “family” organizations repeat day after day about the LGBT community.

    I have, for some time now, been disappointed in some members of the Christian community. That is not to say that some of my friends aren’t what I consider to be good Christians, but many of the people in the South (where I live) make their viewpoints very clear. As an Agnostic and as a lesbian trying to start a family with my partner, I worry about them and how they will interact with my family.

    Seeing your post, however, gives me hope. The LGBT community can never have too many allies, especially when they’re straight and Christian :)

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    thanks, we are not all bad, but many of us are silent. And that is bad.

    [Reply]

  35. Justin December 14, 2010 at 10:14 pm #

    Thank you so much for the wonderful article and everything that you do to help promote equal rights.

    [Reply]

  36. john abbott December 14, 2010 at 9:27 pm #

    Kathy,
    Thank you for the response-it was lovely. You are obviously a person of honor and great compassion, as well as a good Christian. Too many these days care not at all for honor or ethics, or even about other people. This is so very sad because unless we can care about others, our life has no meaning at all and we are empty. Caring about others is what gives our lives meaning and satisfaction-love is all that we can take with us from this world-in the end, it is also all we have to offer others, and the animals, too. Love is a wondrous gift; one that needs to be shared to be of any good. Open minds and open hearts are how we are supposed to live-to do otherwise is to miss out on life’s wonderful fullness and richness of experiences. People do not seem to have spiritual lives any longer-this is obvious and quite saddening since a spiritual life is the foundation to build our lives upon. I have posted your article to my facebook profile for all to see-this is a first because most of the things I post that Christians are associated with are less than loving. I simply had to share you with millions of other people because of the love in your heart and the compassion of your spirit. It moved me greatly and I cannot thank you enough. To me, you are the epitome of a good person, a Christian person. I would like to share something I read in a fortune cookie that has stayed with me for 40 yrs, something I say all the time: there is no greater wisdom than kindness. And another one, a quote from Gandhi, “my life is my message”. These are quite motivating and I live my life in this way, keeping always these two messages in my mind-along with the Buddhist practices of ‘lovingkindness’ and ‘great compassion’ for all living things. It is a joyful way to live, filled with love. You have my undying admiration for your loving work. It is an honor to have ‘met’ you.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    HIGHLY honored by your words!!!! Maybe we will “met” along the way.

    [Reply]

  37. john abbott December 14, 2010 at 6:26 pm #

    Kathy,
    I have read your article and felt compelled to respond. You are among the first Christians I have ever heard speak of love rather than judging others and promoting hatred. I am Buddhist and an athiest and stay clear of Christians and Muslims alike since both groups promote violence and hatred of those who are not like them. It is rather sad that I treat others with more love and respect than either of those groups. Buddhism is very clear about how we should treat others-with the love and respect one gives to their mother, and in the same way we wish to be treated. Christianity says the same but most Christians do not walk the walk, they only talk the talk-and that is hypocrisy. I wish more people saw the struggle of my community for what it really is-a struggle for equality, nothing more, nothing less. You are an outstanding person for the love you promote and I must say your article has given me hope that more self-identified Christians will come to see that love is always better than hatred and acceptance is always better than exclusion. The promotion of hatred as a value in the Christian community has driven many away from your churches and from your religion (including me) and it is likely to remain that way for some time to come, sadly. Please speak out about the Ugandan kill the gays bill written for them by Scott Lively and several US Congressmen (Sen. Inhofe among them). These evalngelical Christians are advocating a holocaust against gay people-they want to kill 3-5 million Ugandans. They will not stop there. Please help the gays under threat there by speaking out-I do all the time. Bless you, your heart is full of love-you are a person of conscience, as am I. Thank you for speaking about this. You have given me hope when I had none and warmed my heart.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    First John, I am honored that you read the article when the word “Christian” is in the title. I have to agree with you in large part which is why I do what I do. I actually HAVE had lengthy exchanges with Scott Lively, about a 20 K word personal exchange which I can’t publish, at least for now. He is so convinced he is right. He even sent me a copy of his book which outlines EXACTLY what he is doing in Uganda. I am also friends with Frank Mugisha, the President of Sexual Minorities Uganda (SMUG) and have interviewed him once and will soon again. I was actually on the phone with him as he wastelling me about the security he strives for in Kampala and THE PHONE WENT DEAD. I was terrified for him and it ended up being a disconnect simply. I know what Lively , SSempa and Lou Engels have done in the name of Jesus. It is blasphemous and deadly.
    Even if the law does not pass in Uganda, the poison is in the churches and THAT is the long lasting danger, as we see in our own country. The only solution longterm is to send in affirming Christians who are willing to stand with GLBT people in Uganda against the church. There is NO NO NONE churches affirming to GLBT Christians in Uganda. NONE. This is what GLBT people in Uganda are asking for. Christians to stand with them. It is not enough for secular people to do it–the Christians will not listen. Sad.
    Lively went in there with his group Defend the Family, to a country where they still beat the crap out of their WIVES andgave them yet another person to hate. If you KNOW a group already uses violence, you HAVE to know that violence against the new devil will be probable. Lively says “I didn’t plan on this” BS. I am pretty sure one day I will meet him face to face. Perhaps coffee with the devil himself. That is , if he doesn’t have a “sexual Indiscretion” first.
    Long to say John, yes, many of us are disgusting and really cheap replicas of The Man we say we follow.
    Check out the LIvely blog and you may enjoy this one on my visit to a mosque. I stretch if nothing else.
    And thanks for the compliments, I am sorry we don’t give you reason to give them more often. And we are to be the PICTURE of love. My hairdresser of 20 years is a Buddhist and we have ALWAYS had a great and mutually respectful relationship.

    [Reply]

  38. annonymous December 14, 2010 at 6:03 pm #

    Kathy,

    Thank you for the article. I used to be a devout evangelical Christian until they wounded the core of my being, like only someone who claims to speak for God can.

    I no longer like “christians” and will never trust them again; to abuse the trust of someone who is wholeheartedly devoted to the Lord and say: we need to cast the evil spirit of homosexuality out of you, and to then follow with an “exorcism,” to which I did not consent, has been the most humiliating, shame inducing and devastating violation to my spirit.

    People who spew hateful memes like: Love the sinner, hate the sin, have no idea of the hatred those words carry. It’s like saying to a person of ____ color, I hate the sin the color of your skin is, but, in spite of it, I love you because God commands me to. Can you imagine the impact of the recipient of such hateful words?

    It has been over 15 years and although I have recovered, it still hurts.

    Best

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    This is SO SO SO that pain of this depth was inflicted on you by “Jesus” people with “Jesus” intentions. It was hurtful, it was wrong, it will be vindicated (by God) and you had to suffer and pay such a high price. If you EVER feel like you can chance another experience with God, pleas find and affirming safe congregation at http://www.welcomingchurches.org — that was people that did that and that is NOT the heart of a loving God. That was fear driven religious abuse and I am deeply, deeply sorry that happened. Please contact me if you EVER feel the desire to try again and I will help you find a loving God-home. Pax. K

    [Reply]

  39. D Gregory Smith December 14, 2010 at 12:16 pm #

    People all over the world are realizing the pain that you speak of here. They are also realizing that it is, in fact, unnecessary.

    This is not about right and wrong, this is about truth and experience and making sense of it all.
    My experience tells me that the truth is much broader than dogma, doctrines or opinions- and I can see it if I’m not afraid.

    Thanks for standing up.

    [Reply]

  40. Cheryl December 14, 2010 at 9:46 am #

    Thanks, Kathy. I think one of the turning points for me…a conservative Christian for 47 years, Spirit-filled for 35 years, etc….was seeing all the pain and struggle within the ex-gay groups and remembering what a non-Christian drug counselor told my father’s psychology class in 1972…”the only real deliverance from drugs I’ve ever seen is when someone has a relationship with Jesus.” Hum (I thought) and ______ (ex-gay group) is Christ-based and there is supposedly only 85% recovery. This isn’t right and Jesus isn’t that benign. The men and women in these groups STRUGGLE and harm themselves to be free. I saw that being GLBT is as much a “choice” as choosing to have cancer (no trying to be mean to anyone, but no one ever says give me cancer).

    If we did a long study of 25 years of 1000 people entering XYZ ex-gay program we might have one person ultimately say I made the transition, but maybe not even that person. That 15% success has to do with peer pressure and fear of failure.

    Finally…I’d like to address the moral and ethical issues associated with people associated with the FRC. Back in 2000 when John Paulk didn’t know he was in a gay bar (hello…my 3-year-old knew a gay bar in 2000) then those “friends of Paulk” told a series of lies about why he didn’t know he was there and then why he was there. Seriously on DuPont Circle in DC??? But then there was the cover-up. The cover-up continues with the next leader and next leader, etc….things they say to each other but not in public like “I never have a day that I don’t wake up wanting” someone of the same sex.

    My opinion is that “hate group” is the tag God permitted after they failed to be committed ethically to truth and live their lives/lead their organization under: what would Jesus do?

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    THANK YOU for the work YOU do . ” My opinion is that “hate group” is the tag God permitted after they failed to be committed ethically to truth and live their lives/lead their organization under: what would Jesus do?” I FULLY agree.

    [Reply]

  41. Personage December 14, 2010 at 8:36 am #

    Always so beautiful to see someone speak from the heart of truth and not the heart of fear, hate and judgement. Many blessings.

    [Reply]

  42. Michael December 14, 2010 at 7:42 am #

    As a gay male, and a Christian, I have always struggled. Thank you for giving light to so many who are in need of it.
    Because of so much hate, many of my friends refuse to listen to anything Christian related. I think your essay will change minds.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    Do you know how sad that makes me feel that people won’t listen because of the damage we have done? We MUST speak up against those that do not speak for the message of the Bible. It is simple-love others.

    [Reply]

  43. Kuildeous December 14, 2010 at 6:27 am #

    How does God tell us that homosexuality is a sin? You claim it’s in the Bible. Only in the Old Testament does one find God condemning homosexuality, as well as shaving the face, eating of shrimp, and wearing of mixed fabrics. If you follow all of these laws, then I cannot accuse you of not living a Biblical life. But, an overwhelming majority of Christians do not follow these. Some claim that it’s because the appearance of Jesus supercedes these laws. For the various Hebrew tribes who were struggling to survive, it was more important to breed and not allow the luxury of homosexual relationships, just as it was important to eat food that was less likely to be contaminated. Could Jesus’s coming not herald a new philosophy where God’s chosen people are not so close to extinction?

    And what of the New Testament? Sure, Paul was rather vocal in his disdain of homosexuals. That’s great, if you worship Paul. But, Christians follow Jesus (or so they claim), so we should see what Jesus said about homosexuality. Here’s what he said:

    That’s right; nothing. So, when faced with a lack of policy dictated by Jesus, where can we turn to? Let’s look at his other demands: Love thy neighbor. I think this overshadows Paul’s misanthropic ways.

    Kathy’s assessment of the verses is far more eloquent than my own. She’s clearly studied the Bible in far greater detail than I could. Even for someone who hasn’t dissected the words, it is obvious to an impartial observer that homosexuality is not the horrible sin that these bigots proclaim. They mask their own personal hatreds and insecurities within these verses and twist them to suit their own agendas.

    And, deanne, you are helping these hate mongers. Even though you are not holding “God hates fags” signs, you are tacitly approving their message. You can claim to, “hate the sin but love the sinner,” but those words fall bitterly deafly on the ears of those who endure the abuse while you sit back and pretend that you are better than them. I’m sure that a KKK member claiming that he, “hates people being black but loves the blacks,” would rightfully earn condemnation and scorn. So should the cowards who hide behind such platitudes.

    [Reply]

  44. Sigrid December 14, 2010 at 5:31 am #

    Thank you so much for writing this!
    I am a lesbian 18 year old girl who grew up with strongly religious parents. I have not yet told them about my orientation as I am afraid that they will turn their backs at me. I really love my parents and as I have suffered from many psychological problems because of me being gay, I don’t want to cause them more stress by telling them the truth.

    I guess they will find out soorner or later, but I wish society would be less hateful towards gay people. We are exactely the same species as heterosexuals, though sometimes you wouldn’t think so judging from some comments…

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    Make sure to check out PFLAG info. They will help you with coming out info and give you info of how to deal with your folks and there will be resources for them too. Also–go to gaychristian.net and get involved in a community of over 15K worldwide and get the courage to do what others have done–coming out in a religious home. PFLAG is secular, GCN is Jesus based, sot you can get insight for the process from both. THere is support on GCN for parents to. THe GCN is a GREAT tip; I have steered lots of people their way. If you are near to Denver, the annual conference is in January and you could stand with over 400 GLBT Christians and KNOW you are more than okay.

    [Reply]

  45. Sam December 13, 2010 at 8:49 pm #

    Thank you for your blog and for this post! Reading it made me think about the story of the pot roast with the ends cut off. The story is easy to find, but here is one place: http://actioncoach.com/The-Roast-With-The-Ends-Cut-Off?pressid=506

    In the story, the woman always cut the ends off the roast before she cooked it because her mother taught her to do that. When she asked her mother why she cut off the ends, mother said it was because grandma taught her to do it that way. When mom finally asked grandma why she did it that way, grandma said it was because she had to cut off the ends to make the roast fit in her pan. Succeeding generations did it because that was what they had been told and taught to do, so they thought that was the proper way to cook a roast.

    Obviously, you get the connection. Most of these myths about LGBT people have been around for awhile, and are repeated and taught time and time again in conservative groups and churches. With the possible exception of #10 on the list, no one even pretends this stuff is not from the Bible. It is made up, or from psuedo-psychologists/researchers/pollsters. It’s all been proven false. It falls into the category of “church urban myths”. But these things don’t want to go away, even though most people have no idea where this stuff came from. The believe it and live accordingly because they heard it at church or from someone who says they are a Christian. That does not make it true.

    Regardless of how someone interprets the Bible as to whether or not it says being LGBT is a sin, they still are commanded very directly by Jesus to love their neighbors. When asked who one’s neighbor is, Jesus told the parable of the good Samaritan Jews in that time and place despised Samaritans, at least as much as LGBTs are despised by today’s conservative religious Christian.

    That story speaks in so many ways to the nastiness/non-acceptance/sometimes hatred directed toward the LGBT community by so much of the church today. Just like the religious guys in Jesus’ story passed by the guy in trouble, and gave him a wide berth, so does the church to the LGBT community today.

    Even if someone thinks being LGBT is a sin, and thinks they find that in the Bible, in no way does that relieve them, if they are a true follower of Jesus, from loving, accepting and even helping out in times of need the LGBT community, or anyone else.

    So someone thinks the Bible says being LGBT is a sin. When we learn that their daughter is living with her boyfriend, do they want us to spout Bible verses at them and reject her? Do they want us making up a list of lies about her and her situation and spreading them around? They’d be really outraged if we did. Yet this is o.k. to do to LGBT people??? No wonder some conservative religious parents throw out their kids when the parents find out the kids are gay. The parents know that most everyone they know is going to reject their kid and maybe even the parents, as in “you must have been a lousy parent if your kid is gay. Maybe you’re not Christian either.”

    We can say all sorts of stuff. However – what we really believe is what we live out. If we love unwed single mothers, LGBT people, homeless people or whomever, we will show it in tangible ways, and they will know it. As you said, Kathy, just ask said people and they can tell you if I love them.

    Jesus did not say “love the sinner and hate the sin” It was a Hindu who said that. Jesus said “love your neighbor as yourself”. Perhaps that is the problem. Those who cannot love certain people do not love themselves.

    [Reply]

  46. Spritzy December 13, 2010 at 8:20 pm #

    ” Let GLBT people near God and if HE chooses to change them, that is HIS job”
    I agree with this statement. No person can change another person, no matter how much they may taunt or threaten or twist. God can make great changes in a person IF they allow God to do so and IF it is in God’s plan. I belive that, as a Christian, I am called to be a GOOD example of Jesus/God to people I encounter every day; therefore I should treat everyone with kindness and compassion, I do not belive that God wants us to press upon people the guilt of sin, be it homosexuality, drunkeness, or even lazyness (not to say that drunkeness or lazyness are the same as homosexuality, it’s just two other examples of sin that people don’t put as much stigma upon) It’s God’s job to press upon people’s hearts if they need to change. It’s a Chistian’s job to let people know that God loves them and will transform them to what God wants them to be (whatever that may be, if God even wants any change at all) All in God’s time and according to God’s plan.
    It’s not who or what you are that matters, it’s how you live your life that’s important.

    [Reply]

  47. Curt Sytsma December 13, 2010 at 6:23 pm #

    I just posted a link to this article with the following comment: “This is a worthy article by a Christian and a political conservative who believes there is nothing Christian about hatred, bigotry, and lies. Many of my friends will think these arguments do not need to be made, but the recent elections prove otherwise.”

    Thank you for fighting the good fight.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    it IS a good fight and eventually, there will be equality. And thank you.

    [Reply]

  48. Kathy December 13, 2010 at 5:26 pm #

    thanks again for the read, or actually the peek. Many things you address have been addressed in all these posts in the VERSES. I am sure YOU think you are being loving, but I have done this too long to think that is accurate. Ask the person that you are “loving”. They get to evaluate it. If I walked into a room FILLED with GLBT people and you and Jesus were there, could I pick you out from Him/ Do you treat people like He would?
    I’m thinking you are Pentecostal or Holiness or COGIC? Or a variation of one of those? You’ve got a pretty good list of Laws goin’ on there. Challenge yourself and go amongst GLBT believers and get back with me. If you can honestly say you do not see fruits and hear professions of faith, you are blind and deaf. Sorry. Your INTERPRETATION of TRANSLATION is a bondage to others. That, sister, is not your right. You are part of the problem in my view. I am sure you are a lovely well meaning woman of God. Concentrate on your own sins and love and serve others. Good plan for all of us.

    [Reply]

  49. Susan December 13, 2010 at 5:08 pm #

    Kathy, as a fellow Christian, I can only say…THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU! I’m as sick of the lies being told by so-called Christians (not what I would call them) as you are.

    [Reply]

  50. Molly December 13, 2010 at 12:46 pm #

    Bravo, bravo, BRAVO!!!

    [Reply]

  51. Pete December 13, 2010 at 11:26 am #

    Bravo!!

    [Reply]

  52. jayne December 13, 2010 at 10:38 am #

    I’m an atheist who doesn’t deny that church is beneficial for some people. A safe haven; support when they’re shunned by family & “friends”. It’s a shame that LGBT community can’t have that. At least in most churches. Last I checked the bible, I don’t remember Jesus being a hater.

    Thank you for exposing these lies and from an open-minded Christian point of view. I only wish there were more people like you in this world. I’m spreading the news!

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    thank you for spreading the TRUTH.

    [Reply]

  53. Seorsa December 13, 2010 at 10:16 am #

    I do appreciate your support of the LGBTQ community, your attempts to transform christianity into something good are admirable, but doomed. I am floored that you actually felt the need to personally research some of these myths. Perhaps it is an age difference.

    I have a friend who is a biblical scholar. Very few christians would qualify as biblical scholars in my book, but she definitely qualifies, and she often says: “It is almost impossible to be a conservative and a christian”. Generally, when people say they are conservatives, they are referring to values that are in now way christian.

    I appreciate your sincerity, and I believe that you stand with the community in more than lip service. I have never believed that of any other christian, so as meaningless as my appreciation is, it is rarely given.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    That is so kind of you to write. There are a growing number of Christians who are speaking up. It is sad that those that are told by the God they say they follow to specifically fight for justice and we don’t understand what that means and actually work AGAINST it.
    I wish the church could have pointed this out to society, but that did not happen. In the civil rights movement of the 60′s , the black community had churches behind them–not so on this one. Check out my interpretations of the verses used against the GLBTQ community in the tab VERSES. You may be thrilled that I cared to research all this. I am writing a book currently and HOPE that it makes a difference. I t has to–it needs to. thanks again! k

    [Reply]

    Deb Reply:

    I’m really grateful to hear you speak from your theological/spiritual place. We need more voices like yours to penetrate. I just wanted to respond to your statement: “In the civil rights movement of the 60′s , the black community had churches behind them–not so on this one. ”

    I’m a pastor of a More Light Presbyterian Church in the denomination called PCUSA (Presbyterian Church USA). More Light congregations have made a commitment to be fully inclusive and to work for that in the community. To be sure, our entire denomination is not supportive of this movement, but I would say about 30-40% of our individual congregations are open to the LGBTQ community. A good many of those congregations are actively working for justice and full inclusion in the whole denomination and beyond the church in their local communities. There are other mainline denominations (ELCA Lutherans, United Church of Christ) doing the same which you might want to check out, too. It’s a bit of a broad brush to say that the church isn’t behind this movement because if the people are the ones who make up the body of Christ (not institutions), then the some parts of the church are working pretty hard for this better day.

    Thanks again for this post!

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    Yes, there are affirming churches and some of those stop at leadership and marriage/commitment ceremonies. Equality is what I want–no difference at all. I have friends in all those denominations. Won’t it be wonderful when it expands to ALL denominations? And thank you for including ALL others.

  54. Big Dan Crum December 13, 2010 at 10:16 am #

    He came into the world NOT TO CONDEMN the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. There is a lot of condemnation going on out of our churches and the “Christian right”. Follow the teacher.

    [Reply]

  55. greg December 13, 2010 at 6:46 am #

    yes,I make my living as a musician,my world is full with straight and gay people, we all get together and make great music together, for a sober mature approach to happiness and well being, the onus is on the individual to become a happy soul, by wasting energy pointing or judging others, takes away from my happiness, and I want to guard this fiercely,so, for the record, I know some happy gay souls and some happy straight souls who both are souls that provide sun and shade for their loved ones,responsibility for our own garden is paramount here,love is the key.

    [Reply]

  56. LizzieK8 December 13, 2010 at 6:21 am #

    Great article and am so amazed so many posted agreement rather than bashing!

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    how do you argue with truth and reason and NOT show yourself a fool?

    [Reply]

  57. Steve K. December 12, 2010 at 4:45 pm #

    Thanks so much for this, Kathy! I’ll be referring a lot of people to this resource.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    thank you. One of the reasons I went to Outlaw Preachers was to connect with people who are willing to do church differently. We sure need to. The personal messages no one can see but me, make me cry, there is so much inflicted pain by Jesus followers. Ugly.

    [Reply]

  58. Ric Alba December 12, 2010 at 3:59 pm #

    Well done Kathy! Sums up so much, so clearly.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    thank you my friend, don’t you wish this were spoken of twenty years ago??

    [Reply]

  59. Kimberly December 12, 2010 at 2:40 pm #

    You rock my world! I want to respond in depth but right now I can only say thank you, a million times thank you. Straight allies are critical and you, my new favorite “religious straight conservative” blogger are a powerful ally.

    Love,
    Your sister in Christ – Kimberly
    Circuit Rider
    The Beatitudes Society
    http://www.BeatitudesSociety.org

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    Kimberly–that is beyond kind and I appreciate it VERY much. Looking forward to more exchanges. K

    [Reply]

  60. Alison Agins December 12, 2010 at 1:19 pm #

    It’s always a good feeling to run across a Christian that is actually practicing and believing in the good things that Christ taught. I’ve Heared preachers preach a gospel of wealth, or preach a gospel of Dominionism & Reconstructionism, or messages of hate stating that “God hates” so it is refreshing whenever I find Christians teaching a message of love. So many do not know and have never met the Jesus that they claim to worship and adore. The Jesus that told the Rich Young Ruler to give away everything that he owned and then “follow me”, the Jesus that preached that this world was not his “kingdom” and that there was a better place being prepared by the Father for all who would follow him. He actually laid it all out about what was required of his followers so they would not be among those that would cry out “Lord Lord” and would receive the rebuke that he would say that he didn’t know them. What a terrible thing to happen. Teachers and Preachers and Followers to be told that while they thought they were doing what he requires of his followers – they were not. They were actually doing the work of the devil. And the fault was with them because they really never studied for themselves the real Jesus. To blindly follow a Preacher can be a deadly deal.
    The Churchmen of Christ’s day thought that they were doing God’s work when they condemned men and women for not obeying the rules that they had devised and were enforcing. The Churchmen/women of this time also have a lot to answer for one day. There will be a judgement and every evil hateful word or deed has been recorded. There is no way out except through Jesus Christ and a true confession and a change of heart.
    God is Love. Jesus is also. The hate that is spilled out regarding those that through no fault of their own are different than the “others” that are in power is a work of the Devil.
    It certainly does not come from the Father or the Son.
    I have great concern about the power the Churchmen today have in seats of government all over the world. If they gain complete control as their agenda has stated then there are many on their hit list. And it is interesting to see Churches with huge differences in doctrine that have come together because they have certain beliefs in common. Abortion – Homosexuality – Guns/War – Death penalty. To see Mormons, Roman Catholics & Protestant/ Evangelicals/ Pentecostals all joining hands across the great divide of doctrine is in my mind prophecy being fulfilled.
    If they gain the control of our government (as they are determined to do) they have a hit list. Liberals/Socialists/Atheists/Humanists/Secularists/ and believe me the GLBT Community is right up there too as you know. They will then go after those religions that are not “Christian” and then they will also go after the Christians that believe in Separation of Church and State. There are still many of us that are in that category.
    I’m hoping that my Gay and Lesbian friends will soon (at least in Calif) be able to marry or not as they see fit.

    [Reply]

  61. Susie December 12, 2010 at 9:31 am #

    I am not a Christian, but I respect those who follow the true tenets and are better people in this world because of their faith. You are one of those people. I am not LGBT either, but like you have many family members and friends who fit in one of those groupings. Thank you for this kind, rational, and well-researched piece.

    [Reply]

  62. Laura Seabrook December 12, 2010 at 12:52 am #

    I think on the whole your article is very good and has its place, but I have one small niggle. Why use GLBT when it seems that in all but one you are referring to gays (and most likely lesbians as well)?

    I see one small reference to trans people, but otherwise you are really talking about gays exclusively.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    even though I may SAY “gay” , I specifically use GLBT to include trans. I have a huge heart for the T’s and havae many T friends. Check out http://canyonwalkerconnections.com/2010/07/transgenders-can-size-14-heels-keep-you-out-of-heaven/. The issues and beliefs about trans area WHOLE different issus and I cover it here in this article. Thank you for pointing it out, I do know the issues are similar and dissimilar.

    [Reply]

  63. Jeremy December 11, 2010 at 11:40 pm #

    Thanks for the article. I was wondering if you could provide me with a source for #8. That would be helpful.

    Thanks.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    Here you go on this document—–http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04353r.pdf

    [Reply]

    jayne Reply:

    Thanks for this. It’s always sexy when you provide evidence!

    [Reply]

  64. Pup December 11, 2010 at 8:32 pm #

    I just wanted to say thank you for standing up and making a difference. I was raised Christian but have chosen Wicca for what I believe in life, love, and spirituality. As far as these bigots go, their words are as dust upon the wind. In the end it will be washed away by the rains of truth. I respect what Jesus taught, but not how his and God’s words have been perverted by humanity. Each human being tries to interpret the words without understanding their meanings. What bothers me the most is how a religion of love can spew so much hate. Christians are not alone in that, fortunately or unfortunately.
    As for politicians that follow the twisted beliefs of any religion and try and foster them off as legislation, they are in a state and act of treason. Same for any politician that denies the Constitution avowed Creator given rights to be applied equally to all Human beings. When you break a sworn oath before the American People and sworn before “your” god, again you cross into treason. Please feel free if you agree to contact the US Department of Justice, the FBI, and the ACLU and call for charges of treason to filed against Mr. Obama, and any other politician, Republican, Democrat, and/or independent that works for any legislation that calls for Discrimination, the making of second class citizens in this country, or that fail to act on legislation that prevents discrimination because their religious conscience has been compromised by the hate mongers. Madam I implore you to contact Mr. Obama and act for him as a Frederick Douglas did for Abraham Lincoln. Help guide him to the moral high ground.
    I have a boy friend in the military who is deployed right now. I haven’t been able to hear from him in 11 months. I am in fear of trying to contact him through the military, red cross, other religious organizations, etc, for that if I do I will most assuredly ruin him as a man, his career, and any hard fought for benefits he has accrued. All Mr. Obama has to do is, as commander in chief, is make an executive order continuing desegregation of the armed forces that Harry Truman started back in the 1940′s-50′s. Let the courts decide after the fact that it is constitutional or not. Help us end DADT (Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell) with a new message. Serve with Pride and Patriotism, no matter who you are.
    I heard from paranoid Straight person that they fear that Homosexuals and others of the GLBT community will demand weddings in a church. HA, why would anyone want to think that? Would you want to have a wedding in a roman temple after all the persecution that the romans placed upon christians? I should point out that religious based marriages are Recognized by local, state and federal governments from our founding to this day as a COURTESY. There are many of us working to have that Courtesy removed under the separation of church and state. That law has to be able to work both ways. Government can’t impose how and what you worship, nor can religion make laws dictating their beliefs upon others who do not believe the same as you do (not saying you personally would). Now what would no longer recognizing existing and future religious marriages by the US governments on all levels mean? First it would mean you are no longer recognized as being LEGALLY married from the states point of view. You could no longer file tax returns jointly with your spouse. This would make you pay more in taxes (which our government needs). Secondly, if you wanted to get recognized LEGALLY by the governments of all levels, you would have to file and pay fees and services of a Justice of the Peace to remarry/marry in the eyes of the law. Again making more cash for our economy. We understand most of these hate groups are being funded by mega rich multinational corporations, to divert attention from what they are doing to our economy and environment. Its the old adage: “Keep the simple minded distracted, and we can rob them blind.” Which also explains why education is so vastly under funded in this country.
    I only have one concern about your definition of human classes. There is only one class of humans, living breathing thinking ones. When you separate people into classes, behaviors, addictions, etc you give status to those that want to differentiate.
    Please I urge you and other Christians that truly believe, to stand up, speak out, and act up for your religion. Shout down hate everywhere you hear it and see it. For if you don’t your religion is going to continue to be destroyed from the inside out. I think I remember the scriptures saying somewhere, if not directly then in paraphrase: If evil grows among you, cast it out.
    Thank you for your time and efforts, and for listening to me.
    I have also shared on Facebook this page.

    [Reply]

    Pup Reply:

    I forgot to also mention some of the ramifications of religious marriages no longer being recognized under the law. You would also loose all rights under the law to inheritance, hospitalization rights for spouses, rights for insurance purposes, and many other rights you all take for granted. We are tired of being denied what you all take for granted. Maybe when it is denied you under the constitution completely legally, then those that do not understand will be enlightened. Sometimes to understand the blind person you have to become blind yourself. We, who are trying to do this do not do so lightly, or with indifference, but out of love of a teacher for a stubborn student who refuses to learn. Unfortunately we cannot afford to have bigots not learn, and innocent people will be caught up in this. For that I am sorry, but the innocent, if not part of the solution, are part of the problem. Complacency toward and acceptance of the status quo cannot be accepted.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    thanks, the class issue and decision is from the Supreme Court. It is their designation. Thank you for the time and thoughts you presented here and thanks for the share.

    [Reply]

  65. spatula December 11, 2010 at 7:35 pm #

    I think it’s great that you don’t buy into the hate commonly peddled by the Christian community. Unfortunately, I think you’re part of a microscopic minority.

    My experience has been that the vast majority of Christians (a) have no idea what their religion actually contains, (b) only care insofar as they can use their religion to excuse whatever horrible behaviour of their own that they wish, and (c) are primarily concerned with hating everyone unlike themselves. Mind you, these are not traits specific to Christianity in particular, but can be seen across any large herd-like groups, both religious and non-religious.

    Most Christians wouldn’t know kindness if it slapped them in the face, and they certainly wouldn’t turn the other cheek if it did. As far as I’m concerned, modern Christianity itself is a hate group. Being a Christian and saying you don’t hate gays isn’t far off from being a member of the KKK and saying you don’t hate black people. It might be true, but you’re still associating with and supporting an institution of rabid bigotry.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    I can empathize with all you say. I only know and try to reflect the revelation of God to and in me. I stay in organized religion to effect change and I do see it happening. I also stay to encourage my GLBT friends who want a place in the church to find it in welcoming communities.

    [Reply]

  66. Fareed Nur Al-Din December 11, 2010 at 6:23 pm #

    What an excellent post. Jesus, may Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him, is one of our prophets as well, and it always strikes me as sad that a man who preached compassion, peace and love should be used as a rallying point for hate. You clearly show much of what he was about, and for that I applaud you.

    We have the same issue within Islam, more so in fact since we’re still striving with the changes needed to bring Sharia into modern society, but I have faith that God will bring us to a better understanding and love of one another.

    May your days be blessed.

    Fareed.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    Fareed—those are very kind words. And God WILL get His way in the end. we all have an image of Him in us, we just need to see it . Did you read my post on going to a mosque–from September? You may enjoy it.

    [Reply]

  67. Rick H December 11, 2010 at 5:13 pm #

    Thank you for standing up for God and going back to WWJD? The ammount of hate that comes out from these groups needs to be met with equal or more love for all. That is something many Christians feel in their hearts but are afraid to say it I fear. Growing up in Fairhaven Baptist Church in Chesterton IN and coming to terms with my sexuality was not an easy task. I am now an activist for the community and from time to time I run into someone from my old church. They often ask me why I turned my back on God and I only have one response to that, “God and I are doing just fine, it’s your church that turned its back on me.” One day I hope they get it :-)

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    Like the reply!!

    [Reply]

  68. Angela December 11, 2010 at 4:27 pm #

    Good essay!
    Tnx.
    And yes, I’m in the LGBTQI ‘community’ and in a now over 12 year relationship with another woman.

    [Reply]

  69. Dusti December 11, 2010 at 3:49 pm #

    I wish my aunt would read this.

    [Reply]

  70. Roberta December 11, 2010 at 3:19 pm #

    I am so proud to call you my daughter…….Mom

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    It worked out well for me in the Mom department too. Kisses old girl.

    [Reply]

  71. Dennis December 11, 2010 at 2:48 pm #

    Love you, you zany crazy nutcase. I thank you for standing…not before me….not behind me….but with me. xo

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    I would stand next to you and hold hands.

    [Reply]

  72. Tony P December 11, 2010 at 2:28 pm #

    So nice to read the blog of a Christian that gets the message.

    As to your last point, I should mention I’m an atheist. Have been since I was a teenager even though I was brought up as a Catholic. So I’m armed with the dogma but don’t believe in the sky fairy bits.

    And let me tell you, a lot of we LGBT are atheists. I think some for the wrong reasons but a lot. You’ll also find a lot of atheists in the engineering field (I’m an I.T. engineer by trade) and in the scientific world.

    The more of an understanding of the world that you have, the less your dependence on belief.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    thank you for reading and commenting. I come from and Eng’g background too–Civil, was a PE in my past life. As to atheism, the best numbers I see are 60% of GLBT adult describe their faith as “important”, 70% describe themselves as Christian and 27% as born again. I follow all this stuff and it may be very wrong and off, but I see that as close to accurate as I find. I was raised Catholic too. We have a few things in common.

    [Reply]

    sandra Reply:

    Those are interesting numbers, considering how many people I know in the pagan community who are GLBT.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    I know, they are the best numbers I see. Maybe they are “out” in orientation and “closeted” in faith? After all, we are not always the nicest team to be on. If we would just follow the leader, we might look more attractive.

  73. Jane December 11, 2010 at 1:56 pm #

    Kathy — thank you for speaking out! I’m sharing on fb.

    It’s so important that we Christians who actually follow Jesus’ teachings of inclusion and love speak up.

    So many use scripture as a way to treat LGBT people as ‘less than’ — but the reality is that there are many, many of us who see the person, not the sexual orientation/identity.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    Thank you Jane, I admire your work, form a far, but we will meet up next time I am in LA. I was in October , but it was too fast.

    [Reply]

  74. Robin December 11, 2010 at 1:23 pm #

    Thank you very much for posting this. I’m straight & Christian but this is an issue I care about very deeply. I’m president of the Gay Straight Alliance at my university here in Alabama. I love my church, they’re relatively progressive, yet I’ve still gotten flack for my support of GLBT issues. It gets really discouraging after a while, and I’m not even gay. God help my gay Christian friends. Sometimes I feel like the only straight Christian who cares, at least around here. I’m glad to know there are others fighting this fight as well. Thank you!!!

    [Reply]

  75. Christina December 11, 2010 at 1:16 pm #

    I used to be a reborn Christian. I’m trans, five years post op. As an activist I experienced the hate right wing Christian fundamentalists harbor for us. I still experience it every day. It hurt and frustrated me so that I turned my back on the religion. I’m a Wiccan now and think the one and only law in that religion speaks far louder than anything I read in the book repeatedly aimed at LGBT folks, and used as bludgeon – “If it harm none, do what thou wilt”.

    Seeing your article is a breath of fresh air. If only Christians would all speak out against the hate as you do, then people like Tony Perkins and the FRC and those like them in my country would be out of a job. The world would be a better, safer place for us, and people wouldn’t feel dishonored, unworthy, rejected, and unloved.

    Thank you for this.

    Blessings,

    Christina

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    Yes we can be an interesting bunch saying one thing and believing it and doing something so contrary. You may want to check out this article. I think it is not to Jesusy and worth the read. And blessing on YOU!

    [Reply]

  76. Wendy Leigh December 11, 2010 at 1:08 pm #

    This is just beautiful. Thank you. As far as the 87 % myth, comes from a 30 plus year old “study” by Freund I believe in The Archives of Sexual Behaviors vol 17 and distorted and manipulated by Paul Cameron and spread by NARTH, The Catholic Church andThe Traditional Values Coalition, FOF where they asked pedophiles how they identified after having set the parameters themselves, as sex with boys as homosexual and sex with girls as heterosexuals. Nifty little trick they use. Freund himself found no propensity greater for homosexuals than heterosexuals to molest, but that was not good enough results for them. Truth Wins Out, Good As You and holybulliesandheadlessmonsters.blogspot.com are excellent at refuting the warped nonsense.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    ahh, so that is where is comes from. Ask and you get an answer. And yes for TWO–had lunch with Evan while in Memphis last week.

    [Reply]

  77. Rex December 11, 2010 at 1:02 pm #

    Thank you for writing and posting this! I am not a Christian, and claim no link to any other religion, and fully respect religious freedom for all. Tony Perkins, FRC and related groups (often called fringe, while not fringe at all), have been spewing forth these lies for many years. And, for many years, I’ve been asking “Why aren’t the “Nice”- “We Aren’t All Like That” Christians doing something worthwhile about it?

    I appreciate You Doing/Saying something about it. Your take on the lies, are excellent. There is not one single “Gay or Special Right” I or any other desire. Equality is simply that, Equality.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    thanks, and I wish we could all just get the responses right. Not gay rights, equal rights. It is surprising what powere is hidden in words. NOM always says (and they tell their people) NEVER say “marriage equality” , always say marriage is between one man and one woman—deflecting the issue.

    [Reply]

    Wendy Leigh Reply:

    Ha! Did you see their new buttons at Georgetown???
    Marriage equality= One man, One woman with two gendered stick figures. 8 /

    [Reply]

  78. Jessica Naomi December 11, 2010 at 12:06 pm #

    If you are following the bastard son of the bronze age god myth invented by Constantine as the first solution to the Jewish problem, you are part of a legacy of lies and hate. You are following a religion of genocide, whose followers like you have enslaved, tortured and murdered hundreds of millions of people on every continent in the name of the bastard son of the bronze age god. You are cherry picking the genocidal bible just like all Christians do. You are agreeing with the 400-year inquisition. You are agreeing with slavery. You are agreeing with the Holocaust. You are agreeing with murdering innocent Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan. You are aiding and abetting and consenting to the bible of genocide and hate. You are doing this in the name of the same bastard son of the bronze age god as all Christians have done for 2010 years. The bronze age god did not send an angel to fuck a virgin. That mythical virgin did not pop out a bastard son of the bronze age god. Jews did not kill the mythical bastard son of the bronze age god. The mythical bastard son of the bronze age god did not die for the sins of hundreds of millions of Christians who have enslaved, tortured and massacred hundreds of millions of people on every continent for 2010 years. Stop giving consent to the lie of this first solution to the Jewish Problem and the Final Leviticus Solution to the Homosexual Problem. Your consent continues genocide. Take responsibility for your own equality. If you want to stop the hate, stop spreading the lie.

    [Reply]

    John Reply:

    Jessica,
    While I do agree with you in principle, I think your anger is definitely misplaced here. I can’t understand how an obviously very rational thinker such as Kathy can choose to follow the line proffered by the Christians but it seems to work for her and that’s good enough for me. She obviously does not belong to the same camp that you outlined in your treatise (in reality the Catholics), instead just sticking to the “love and compassion” message. Also, by publishing a very public commentary on the negative and truly horrific aspects of that Corporation, she is doing what she can to cause change from within and I applaud her for it.
    Thank you, Kathy, for the well-written article. It should be standard reading for any interviewer who has to deal with any of the nut jobs you mention in your article. (Especially those closet cases, Tony Perkins and Bryan Brown.)

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    you made me giggle at the end. There are a few more to add to that list, but I make it my own policy to be kind on here.

    [Reply]

  79. Lauren December 11, 2010 at 11:27 am #

    Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU so much. As a bisexual Christian, this article, especially the part about how LGBT people CAN be Christians, means SO much to me. It actually made me cry, because it is so hard to try to be a young Christian searching for a church and having to leave one you loved because suddenly you find out the place that should have been a safe, warm, welcoming one has showed you that you are not welcome there. It is Christians like you that open their arms and their hearts that have kept me from giving up on my faith. God bless you!

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    go to welcomingchurches.org or send me a message privately and I may well know a church. I have lots of connections and can ask.

    [Reply]

  80. Dave December 11, 2010 at 11:20 am #

    I loved your article. I would love to share it on Facebook if that is ok.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    GO and do not hesitate!

    [Reply]

  81. cybersleuth58 December 11, 2010 at 11:12 am #

    Thank you Kathy! Back when it was news that the US was becoming more Christian, I recall shrugging my shoulders and thinking that was a good thing bc Christians cared about the same people I do: the poor, the abandoned, the underdogs. I didn’t know then that a group of haters would hijack Christianity and make it something to fear. As a lesbian now in my 50′s, I watch as one conservative group after another distinguishes itself as anything BUT Christian. When will so-called Christian leaders come out publicly to embrace the causes that Jesus espoused rather than spewing lies and stirring up hatred and division? I wish there were more conservatives like yourself. Thank you for standing with us, and especially caring about GLBT youth.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    I DO care about the youth. I am in contact with lots of GLBT youth, they find me and I “mom” them.

    [Reply]

  82. Jack December 11, 2010 at 10:16 am #

    Kathy,

    Thank you so much for your post. I used to be a devout Mormon “girl” ( before I came out as lesbian, and then a transman) and I have felt a lot of pain because of these lies and others, and I am optimistic that a new day is coming where there will be less pain, disgust, hatred, and ignorance. I will be passing this along to my mother, and I hope she hears what you have said.

    Thank you,

    Jack

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    Jack, I would love to know your story–I think by nature I am a storyteller. Would you be open to that? I was in SLC with an unexpected layover lst week and walked Temple sq and just “felt” what I needed to feel. Wow, can’t imagine being GLBT there!! Did you see the article in the SLC Trib today???

    [Reply]

  83. FR. Tommy Sheppard December 11, 2010 at 10:04 am #

    Kathy,

    I can’t tell you enough how wonderful this posting is. You took on the most common lies used to hurt GLBT people and responded with such candor and common sense.

    May God richly bless you.

    Thank you!!
    Fr. Tommy

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    thank you, thank you. This was hard for me to write because I did start out so angry. You should see my first three attempts at a start . . . or, maybe NOT! they are in my docs and will stay there.

    [Reply]

  84. Marko December 11, 2010 at 8:29 am #

    Wow, is all I have to say. So well put, and I think all Christians need to read this

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    First Marko— I LOVED your post about underconver at a gay camp—-LOVED it. I was reading it while hiking on my cell phone. I saw it and COULD not even wait till I got home to read it, so there I was in snow in the forest reading your account—brilliant!!! I am thrilled that we are connected. Do I know you on FB???? send me a request if you are. I would really appreciate that.

    [Reply]

    Marko Reply:

    Yes, somehow we are connected on facebook, we chatted yesterday as you know :) I’m glad you enjoy the blog and the postings, I’m enjoying yours as well. Glad to know there are others out making these efforts.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    And I LOVED your blog and suggest it to anyone who wonders about these reparative therapy programs. Changing orientation does not work. Read also my post about sexual orientation. “, I’m a Zero a Look at sexual Orientation”

  85. Lindsey December 11, 2010 at 1:25 am #

    Kathy, this post is excellently written. I sincerely appreciate it. Thanks!

    [Reply]

  86. Brian December 10, 2010 at 8:56 pm #

    You nailed it as usual. Thank you for being a voice of reason and support.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    thank you!

    [Reply]

  87. Mark December 10, 2010 at 6:25 pm #

    A well-written, thoughtful and insightful post. Thank you.

    [Reply]

  88. hi hopes December 10, 2010 at 6:16 pm #

    I am glad they hit the list. Wonder what the criteria is… I bet we can get some others to make the list as well..

    By the way, I am standing right beside you! I stand along side for Equal rights and inclusion!

    Allies, more allies need to come out and stand for our Gay/Lesbian/Bi, Transgender/identity brothers and sisters.

    Love to you, Hope

    [Reply]

  89. MJ Aponte December 10, 2010 at 6:12 pm #

    This is without question the best piece I have ever heard from anyone in the religious community on this subject. For too long, people of faith have stood idly by while their own on the far right have brutalized the GLBT community with impunity. Their hateful message is poisoning people’s hearts and driving souls away from the church, my own included. The moderate and loving amongst you have waited far too long to wrest the vestments from these jackals in your midst. People like you absolutely MUST do more to break their stranglehold on your faith. Thank you Kathy, for being the first to show me there might be some of you finally ready to do so.

    [Reply]

    Kathy Reply:

    thank you very much. It is encouraging to hear that; people are starting to listen BUT we should have LEAD this charge.

    [Reply]

  90. Charlotte December 10, 2010 at 5:04 pm #

    Excellent article!! I have so many friends who married the opposite sex knowing they were gay because they felt it was the christian thing to do. In the long run it brought more harm than good.. hurt feelings and denial.. sacrificing living the lives the way they desire because it’s not acceptable within the church.

    I also like the point of number 9.. If marriage is not allowed and then some want to say that they hop from partner to partner well that doesn’t make sense. It’s like some Christians think that if the law changes then something catastrophic will happen… it’s like they are afraid that churches will be forced to do evil things…Marriage is a legal contract and not always a religious thing. If some churches preform such matrimonies then so what!

    [Reply]

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  8. Statistics That Lie | "Dutch Gay Marriage Study" | Canyonwalker Connections - March 3, 2011

    [...] gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people. The posts will be added here as they are written.  “Ten Lies About the GLBT Community Told by Conservative Hate Groups |  A  Christian Perspect…,  “Medical Consequences of What tHomosexuals Do”, Come On, Really?”,  [...]

  9. "Day of Dialogue" from Focus on the Family is Not a Jesus-Action | Canyonwalker Connections - February 25, 2011

    [...] the Alliance Defense Fund—what the heck are you doing? Asking the Christian youth to do your anti-gay work? There is nothing wrong with sharing faith, but targeting GLBT youth? Sure, you have added a few [...]

  10. "Medical Consequences of What Homosexuals Do": Come On, Really? | Canyonwalker Connections - February 19, 2011

    [...] as proof by other “Christian family” groups and churches (American Family Association, The Family Research Council , the Illinois Family Association, Americans for Truth About Homosexuality, Concerned Women for [...]

  11. Ten Lies « The very bad girl - February 4, 2011

    [...] read the entire article here… [...]

  12. Lies Kill | Canyonwalker Connections - February 2, 2011

    [...] the Bible really does say about homosexuality.  I apologize that we in the US and Uganda have been manipulated by groups that say they love and are protecting our families, but they actually feeding misinformation and [...]

  13. The Ten Lies about the GLBT Community Told by Conservative Hate Groups: a Straight Christian Perspective | Canyonwalker Connections « News That Matters - December 28, 2010

    [...] The Ten Lies about the GLBT Community Told by Conservative Hate Groups: a Straight Christian Perspec…. Wikio Wikio Civil Rights, Commentary   Christian, Civil Rights, gay rights, hate [...]

  14. Equality IS a Jesus Value | Canyonwalker Connections - December 21, 2010

    [...] If you are reading this and muttering the words “choice” and “lifestyle”, please read “The Ten Lies about the GLBT Community from Christian Hate Groups:  a Christian Perspective&#… .  So, here we are again, witnessing a struggle for equality by yet another group of people. And, [...]

  15. Jesus Loves Me, This I Know… « Talk About Equality - December 16, 2010

    [...] post, The Ten Lies about the GLBT Community Told by Conservative Hate Groups: a Straight Christian Perspec… highlights many of the arguments we face on a daily basis, from “being gay is a choice” [...]

  16. On Scott Lively of the “Kill the Gays Bill” (In)Fame | Canyonwalker Connections - December 15, 2010

    [...] Research Council was named to the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Hate Groups list entitled ” The Ten Lies about the GLBT Community Told by Conservative Hate Groups: A Straight Christian…“).    I get that.  We are getting well known for our anti-gay-ness, judgmentalism and [...]

  17. Before I Forget | Motherhood...Unscripted - December 13, 2010

    [...] The Ten Lies About the GLBT Community [...]

  18. 10 Lies About the LGBT Community Perpetuated By the Christian Right « From Eternity To Here - December 13, 2010

    [...] Read the full post here. [...]

  19. The Ten Lies about the GLBT Community Told by Conservative Hate Groups: a Straight Christian Perspective | Queer Visalia - December 11, 2010

    [...] at Canyon Walkers Connections has written an insightful commentary on the top ten lies told about gays and lesbians by conservative hate groups.  Spurred by the recent addition of several right wing “values” groups to the Southern [...]

  20. Tweets that mention The Ten Lies about the GLBT Community Told by Conservative Hate Groups: a Straight Christian Perspective | Canyonwalker Connections -- Topsy.com - December 10, 2010

    [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Kathy Baldock, Kathy Baldock. Kathy Baldock said: RT @canyonwlkr The Ten Lies about the GLBT Community Told by Conservative Hate Groups: a Straight .. http://bit.ly/e3S55o [...]

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